Jack and Gwen

[SuperHolz_X]

Any story developments you'd like to
see between Jack and Gwen? (:

[owlpost1992]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

[SuperHolz_X]

Can't say I completely agree...
I'd say more that their friendship develops...sort of overlaps their
lovey dovey side for eachother. & I actually think that with Jack and
Ianto too. They've got a world to save, no time for snogging anyway :P

[ElectroxGirl]

They've got a world to save, no time for snogging anyway :P
Oh they'll make time.

[SuperHolz_X]

knowing torchwood.
they'll do it in such a classy way.

[kolo]

knowing torchwood.
they'll do it in such a classy way.

You're joking, right? :lol:

[Chelle]

Forget the aliens, some snogging would be great!

Agreed! :yes:

xxx

[SuperHolz_X]

That would be great to know if Jack actually loves Gwen.
Although if Gwen ran away with PC Andy I wouldn't be completely heartbroken ^_^

then again, just a little comment from Jack...in an emtional scene...
or even him telling someone else other than Gwen. that'll be enough :)

Rumours are said that Gwen and Rhys test the boundres of their marriage.
ooooooh.

See I could see Jack kissing Gwen just to piss Rhys off.
They've got alot of problems with eachother... like Mickey and The Doctor had.

[ElectroxGirl]

See I could see Jack kissing Gwen just to piss Rhys off.

I don't think Jack would do that. Plus I don't think Gwen would let him. She seems to have gone off him since she married Rhys (thank God!)

[SuperHolz_X]

I don't know...like I said, if PC Andy came and swept her off her feet.
I'd be happy. :P He's lovely. Eh, my views are...if they're going to flirt (jack and gwen)
then atleast one of them tell the other (without retcon coming after it) how they feel...

if in series 3, they keep away from the flirting, and concentrate more on rhys/gwen
ianto/jack i wont mind as much, it's the constant willthey/wontthey that kills me :P

I hate being in the dark hahaa.

[kolo]

Forget the aliens, some snogging would be great!


*Yawn* :rolleyes:

[kolo]

Forget the aliens, some snogging would be great!


*Yawn* :rolleyes:

Okay then, how about some alien induced snogging? With lots of action.

Now that, I like. Good call.

[SuperHolz_X]

God, imagine the shock you'd all get if there was literally...
no snogging at all? Only aliens and action...what kind of world would be live in.
Has anyone ever seen the dead ringers parody on youtube of torchwood...?
it made me laugh. ^^

:tongue: who would everyone like to see a big screen kiss between?
excluding Jack and Ianto because in the trailer we've already seen it.

[SuperHolz_X]

I saw it for the first time two days ago, I was
weak, the way he walks got me at first. So hilarious
'We can only capture it if one of us has has sex with it'
:laugh:

two weevils?
seriously? :O! hahaha, I'd probably end up pausing it, rewinding
playing in slow motion over and over, mind boggling.

Gwen and Jack kiss? Now that's something I can see happening
*prays*

Gwen and Capt. John...he's like a badass jack...mmmm. :P

[ElectroxGirl]

Andy and someone! He's had no one the poor guy.

[SuperHolz_X]

Andy has to, because he's lovely ^_^

[Dimes]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.

[Bananas]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.
God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.
Hopefully there will be some development of the friendship between Gwen and Jack - S2 tended to flip between major disagreements and suggestions of lust...
I don't think it'll be possible for much else, with Euros talking about the love story between Jack and Ianto, plus the fact that this is the big launch of Torchwood on BBC1 and trying to get new viewers - it would "muddy the waters" to have Jack or Gwen making declarations to each other.
Bring on CoE and the focus on Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto :yahoo1:

[Yema]

Hmm, I never know about this one. I love Jack and Gwen and sure I'd love to see more of them but I also love Rhys and Gwen then Jack and Ianto and I wouldn't want anything spoiling that. Still, wouldn't say no though. I think Jack does love Gwen, just in different ways, like she does him.

[owlpost1992]

Hmm, I never know about this one. I love Jack and Gwen and sure I'd love to see more of them but I also love Rhys and Gwen then Jack and Ianto and I wouldn't want anything spoiling that. Still, wouldn't say no though. I think Jack does love Gwen, just in different ways, like she does him.


Hopefully there will be some development of the friendship between Gwen and Jack - S2 tended to flip between major disagreements and suggestions of lust...

Well, lust is an off shoot of love and I don't mean the sort of love friends have.

[Dimes]

Hopefully there will be some development of the friendship between Gwen and Jack - S2 tended to flip between major disagreements and suggestions of lust...
Yes! I really, really love their friendship, and they kind of ruined it in S2. I can think of a few nice moments, but they get cheapened by the horrid suggestions of those sorts of moments being part of some "romance" between them. I want a male lead/female lead strong friendship without the tired, cliche will they/won't they bullshit for once. It's so rare to see that on tv these days. I've said this before, but I really think they have the potential for a Doctor/Donna sort of friendship, and that would be so awesome to watch. It would have the benefit of bringing out the best in both of them, which would be the complete opposite of whatever is going on between them now.

[Neuro]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.
Well I think theres so many unanswered questions in about Jack/Ianto and Gwen /Rys

Don’t forget that Ianto betrayed the team and they killed Lisa and shortly after Gwen reads Iantos mind and he’s borderline suicidal and then next episode is bonking the boss.

Jack/Gwen is a bit more complex my take is that Jack is being gentleman and trying not to repeat seeing some he loved grow old and die.

But do think those two have a Coup de foudre and certainly the scenes as written are telling us that there’s something there. Maybe I’m biased but be there done that and carried the torchwood :-)

There’s also the subtext of Gwen being pressured by family and by implication Rys to give up her career and be a stay at home mum. With Gwen being torn between the new and frightening world that jack has shown her or the safe world but she knows that she cant go back. I’me looking forward to her version of Sam Carters genitals speech.

[owlpost1992]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.
Well I think theres so many unanswered questions in about Jack/Ianto and Gwen /Rys

Don’t forget that Ianto betrayed the team and they killed Lisa and shortly after Gwen reads Iantos mind and he’s borderline suicidal and then next episode is bonking the boss.

Actually it was Tosh who heard his thoughts not Gwen. Next episode in TW terms doesn't necessarily mean next day so some time could pass and he's slowly starting to move on when he approaches Jack, who he's already had a pseudo relationship with.

[Neuro]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.
Well I think theres so many unanswered questions in about Jack/Ianto and Gwen /Rys

Don’t forget that Ianto betrayed the team and they killed Lisa and shortly after Gwen reads Iantos mind and he’s borderline suicidal and then next episode is bonking the boss.

Actually it was Tosh who heard his thoughts not Gwen. Next episode in TW terms doesn't necessarily mean next day so some time could pass and he's slowly starting to move on when he approaches Jack, who he's already had a pseudo relationship with.

oops forgot that it was Tosh - still its big jump from the "life isnt worth liveing" to stopwatch games. even with teh sort seasons that the BBC do its still only a month or so.

[Bananas]

They could stop eyeballing each other and just get on with snogging their better halves.

God, yes please. I don't want to have to sit through any more cringe-inducing Jack/Gwen scenes. I'm rather hopeful about S3 in this regard. It'll be nice to see Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto get development. Those couples actually work, and are interesting to watch.
Well I think theres so many unanswered questions in about Jack/Ianto and Gwen /Rys

Don’t forget that Ianto betrayed the team and they killed Lisa and shortly after Gwen reads Iantos mind and he’s borderline suicidal and then next episode is bonking the boss.

Actually it was Tosh who heard his thoughts not Gwen. Next episode in TW terms doesn't necessarily mean next day so some time could pass and he's slowly starting to move on when he approaches Jack, who he's already had a pseudo relationship with.

oops forgot that it was Tosh - still its big jump from the "life isnt worth liveing" to stopwatch games. even with teh sort seasons that the BBC do its still only a month or so.
We were told that They Keep Killing Suzie occurs 3 months after Everything Changes, and according to the Torchwood Archives there's a minimum of a month between Cyberwoman and Small Worlds.
Then again, there's not a long life expectancy at Torchwood so it's believable that Ianto could "turn a corner" and decide it was time to move on.

[owlpost1992]

Maybe they were just having sex as a release more then it meaning anything.

[SuperHolz_X]

i am surpringly excited to see torchwood develop more of
a romance between jack and ianto. i am excited because,
well i don't know where they're going to go with it...in the
torchwood books jack flat out calls ianto his boyfriend, yet
i don't see that being something jack would openly say, not
that he's embaressed, but he's always said about catagories
etc. i don't know, i can't see jack and ianto walking hand in
hand down the peir, but maybe jack admitting more that ianto
is his one and only lover. which would be sweet *twitches a bit bitter*

I still think with Jack and Ianto's relationship developing there
has to be some sort of development between jack and gwen like
in s2 from s1 ianto and gwen both got closer to jack. heck, what
can i say, i'm a sucker for j/g chemistry! makes me all giddy. although
i still think if pc andy comes into the picture he could snap gwen/ianto
up in an instant in my books. :crazy:

[Yema]

Omg! It has talking in the background! I love fan vids with music, video clips and talking. They're by far the best imo. xD

I like Gwen and Jack, just not as a big thing, sort of a in the background always there kind of love.

[Word_waterfall]

I like Gwen and Jack, just not as a big thing, sort of a in the background always there kind of love.

I get what you mean. It's comforting, always there in the background. I like how they both feel something, only its kinda...beyond what they can express. Afterall, jack is a Man of the world ;) and Gwen choose Rhys....GAH. Silly Gwen. Rhys is cute, but he would be cuter somewhere else...away from Gwen...

[Meef]

lmao Word_waterfall! Do I detect a think for Rhys? Sorry no offense. Just passing through and found your statement really funny. It was wonderful! :smile:

[Word_waterfall]

lmao Word_waterfall! Do I detect a think for Rhys? Sorry no offense. Just passing through and found your statement really funny. It was wonderful! :smile:

hahaha, No I DO like him. Alas my Dilema. He is not angsty enough for Gwen :P

[Meef]

Well I agree, Rhys is too much man for Gwen! lol. Too funny you really made my day! But what of PC Andy do you think he would have made a better consort for Gwen. (Consort! god, I have been writing too much!) What do you think?

[Word_waterfall]

PC Andy would be an ideal candidate to court our dear Gwen, simply for the comedy value. Being able to measure the velocity of a kebab (CSI CARDIFF! F**K YEAH!!), is a rare and treasured talent. I like PC Andy, and he so wants in on the Torchwood. I think he would take it well :P

I approve. :good:

[Meef]

We really have to stop meeting like this. And yes if our beloved PC Andy wants in then so be it. Torchwood is at loss for not hiring him. Great comedic valve! But what of Gwen and Jack? The background relationship is a good point of view Yema!
Meef thinks you are on to something. Very interesting indeed!

[Word_waterfall]

Gwen and Jack are timeless. They are kinda starcrossed, being together would cause them a lot more pain than staying apart. They must love each other from afar (outside of my Fanfic anyway).

Gwen + Jack = Sad Ianto + Sad Rhys + Missed PC Andy comedy situations + Gwen angst + Jack Angst. Leading to breakup of torchwood, and discombobulation of all torchwood fans and the entire world. *Deep breath*

And if that entire mathimatical equation is not something to avoid I don't know what is. Damn Gwack for looking so pretty.

[Meef]

OH dear, love the star crossed lover bit! You have a great way with the brain. I was so busy over analyzing it that the simplest solution was right there! Well done! I bow to you brilliance! Really I'm on the floor worshiping this post as we speak. What you don't believe me. lol :smile:

[Word_waterfall]

I accept that I am brilliant :p

[Meef]

As you should!

[Kaleidoscope]

Gwen and Jack are timeless. They are kinda starcrossed,
*looks around for a vomit emoticon*

:wink: I'm joking. I'm not a Gwack fan at all. I accept they love each other but I think 'starcrossed' is a bit too much for me to believe.

Each to their own :smile:

[Meef]

And here I thought you were an incurable romantic Suzanne! I thought the star crossed seemed to fit. I think that Jack is capable of loving two people at the same time in different ways. He may love Gwen and never get Gwen. But his true heart will forever be Ianto's. If Gwen and Jack are star crossed, Ianto and Jack are soul mates.

[kolo]

Gwen and Jack are timeless. They are kinda starcrossed,
*looks around for a vomit emoticon*


:vom: this one?

:D

[Meef]

I would like to see a really long passionate kiss with Rhys and Gwen. I think there kisses are too short sometimes. I can't exclude Jack and Ianto, I want more of that . Sorry just what I like.

[kolo]

I'd like to see a long passionate kiss between Gwen and Janet. You know it makes sense.

[Yema]

O_o That's worrying. :p

[Meef]

lmao! I needed that Kolo! Love to see it as well!

[kolo]

lmao! I needed that Kolo! Love to see it as well!

You know when she was snogging the sex gas lady she was really fantasising about Janet.

[Yema]

So Gwen's "I can't have sex in front of a weevil" line was just a cover? :p

[Yema]

Haha, you guys have seriously weird ideas!

[kolo]

So Gwen's "I can't have sex in front of a weevil" line was just a cover? :p

She doesn't want to make Janet jealous...or does she?? :yikes2:

[Meef]

Hey I would want to make Janet jealous! Wouldn't you?

[Word_waterfall]

I'd like to see Gwen going home and saying:

"I'm really sorry, Rhys.. but I cheated on you, with a weevil called Janet...do you forgive me?"

I think Rhys wouldn't be the only one wanting retcon after finding that out.

The BBC/Torchwood will have to give out free retcon to traumatised viewers. (My boundaries between reality and fiction are a little blurred...)

Yes, Gwen's 'can't have sex in front of a weevil' line was probably more like:

"I can't have sex in front of Janet...she might want to join in and then Owen will know my secret fantasy..."

Hahaha, O diar. I have to say I would need some Retcon! lmao!

[Yema]

I think I'd take the retcon if I'd witnessed it, for sure. :p

[Chelle]

I would like to see a really long passionate kiss with Rhys and Gwen. I think there kisses are too short sometimes. I can't exclude Jack and Ianto, I want more of that . Sorry just what I like.

I agree, I'd like to see that too, but its like they are a couple who've got 'bored' with each other they can't be bothered!

xxx

[jackngwen4eva]

Janet has some wrath if she's been cheated on. I've experienced it first hand.

Personally, I'd just like to see some development in general. Especially with Gwen and Rhys. I know we had the whole Meat thing last series, but I want something more. And no more domestics, please. It does my head in!

[Meef]

Agreed! I would like to see there relationship move in a different direction. And please no babies, not that I would mind that in the future of the show, but right now it would be jumping the shark, as to say.

[gisyl]

Personally, I'd just like to see some development in general. Especially with Gwen and Rhys.
I have to say that I agree with that.
They are suppose to be a married couple and yet,there are some moments I just wonder why the hell they were married.

[Word_waterfall]

Personally, I'd just like to see some development in general. Especially with Gwen and Rhys.
I have to say that I agree with that.
They are suppose to be a married couple and yet,there are some moments I just wonder why the hell they were married.

No, they don't really show much of the good parts of the relationship on the show ::frown::

It's kinda like it was important for Gwen's character, now Rhys in just an afterthought...

[gisyl]

Nope,which is a shame cause it would give a much more insight in Gwen.
Then again,it does seem she spends more time in the hub,then at home,so.

I would love to see more Jack and Rhys interaction,just to see how they would get along in the long run.
Afterall Gwen needs them both,I think atleast

[Word_waterfall]

Afterall Gwen needs them both,I think at least

Yeah, Defo! They start developing his character on scene then he disappears for loads of episodes.

[gisyl]

Yep,though I have to say that I don`t want Rhys to join Torchwood,cause that would ruin the relationship between them.
and 2 alphamales together is gonna cause trouble.

[jackngwen4eva]

Always!
RTD always said that the element that Rhys provides is domesticity. There are aliens and apocalypses, but at the end of the day, it's all compared to a human couple living in a flat in Cardiff, which brings everything into perspective for the audience.

[gisyl]

It certainly does.
What I would love to see is a situation were Rhys and Jack have to work together.
That would be fireworks for sure :smile2:

i`m going horrible of topic,I think

[Meef]

We all go off topic Jolein (love you name!) That is par for the course. So don't feel so bad. I often wondered what an all Jack/Rhys (please people heads out of the gutter!) episode would be like (runs off with fic idea) . They could work well together. Interesting indeed.

[SuperHolz_X]

See, I think it would be interesting if they worked together. If it's anything like Meat, you'll notice how Gwen isn't so much herself as she normally is with Jack because Rhys is there. Also, you may even see Jacks jealousy again (you can't hide that he was jealous of rhys in Meat...well you can hide it if you want, but it's a lie :grin: ) Also, conflict between Rhys and Jack is always nice in my eyes. Growl. :inlove:

[gisyl]

We all go off topic Jolein (love you name!
Thanks!


I often wondered what an all Jack/Rhys (please people heads out of the gutter!) episode would be like (runs off with fic idea) . They could work well together. Interesting indeed.
Damm,you know how tough it is to stay out of the gutter :laugh2:
I have a feeling that if they can put their difference aside,they are really a force to be reckoned with togther.
You really should write that fic,I know I would read it.


If it's anything like Meat, you'll notice how Gwen isn't so much herself as she normally is with Jack because Rhys is there.
I think that she has 2 sides,one for when she is at home with Rhys and one when she is with Jack.
So when those 2 meet,she has no idea how she should act.
That would make a nice conflict to see too

[Yema]

Jack and Rhys is always going to be interesting because of their love for Gwen. Jack obviously really cares for Gwen and because of that he has to look out for Rhys so as to keep Gwen in tact, as we saw in End of Days if anything happens to Rhys... well, it wouldn't be so good. However, both guys, I reckon, are always going to have a bit of jealousy for each other. Rhys because Jack is so confident, good looking and has a really good relationship with Gwen. Then Jack, because I think he does love Gwen, just from a background point of view, if that makes any sense at all.

[SuperHolz_X]

yema it makes perfect sense. :)


i remembered now in Something Borrowed.
Where Jack&co. find (isi marvin ?) dead in the hotel room
with Tosh and Banana Boat stuck together. & Jack goes to take
Gwen or something and Rhys goes something about either caring about
or wanting Gwen to be safe and Jack turns and goes 'So do I!' really
defensivly, almost offended that Rhys wouldn't think he cared.

(I noticed how often I said something then :P) Jack and Rhys do work
together in series 3, maybe they argue, and in this arugment it's clear
to whoever is watching how Jack feels. (say Ianto is observing...then
again if he hasn't noticed Jack loves Gwen aswell, he's been a bit behind)
it would cause conflict which we all love between everyone. :shout:

[KofTroy]

Jack and Rhys is always going to be interesting because of their love for Gwen. Jack obviously really cares for Gwen and because of that he has to look out for Rhys so as to keep Gwen in tact, as we saw in End of Days if anything happens to Rhys... well, it wouldn't be so good. However, both guys, I reckon, are always going to have a bit of jealousy for each other. Rhys because Jack is so confident, good looking and has a really good relationship with Gwen. Then Jack, because I think he does love Gwen, just from a background point of view, if that makes any sense at all.

Hi all! I'm new here; but I just wrote on the who Jack should be w/thread, and they are very pro-Iano. I do not think he is ready to be w/anyone yet, and I think lanto is a big part of Jack becoming a person who can love someone else both emotionally and physically. I also think ianto is still brokenhearted after Lisa, that was awful. I do not think jack is too nice to him, and he and Gwen fight because she often tries to use his feelings to get what she wants. She is just as messed up, because she treats Rhys so badly, and I am not a huge Rhys fan. ! He's too goofy even though he does do some smart things, but he is a simpler man, and a good man.

But Gwen has changed, and she is not the same person who met and fell in love w/Rhys. and she works w/a sophisticated smart group of people, and she has grown a lot as well. I think that is something that she has not accepted either, and only then will she and Rhys be over. I think one of the main reasons she wants to marry Rhys so badly is to get away from Jack--but getting married won't stop her feelings, just put a lid on them for awhile. Jack also knows that he cannot be what she needs at the moment, and that's why he says how important it is that Rhys loves her so much.

However, I think that he is in love w/Gwen; he can't live without her! He makes that perfectly clear, and usually does not let her do things ie. Jonas, for her own protection. She also has called him on his aloofness, and he loves that she is making him into more of a good person, and real human being. She is not ready to give up Rhys . I also think that she's afraid of being alone, and that is something she needs to make peace w/in order to have a relationship, a strong relationship w/someone else.I hate how she tries to get Jack to say how he feels by saying no one else would have her--whatever. I am also not sure if he was 100% telling the truth when he says that she is the reason wanted to come back.

I do think that he is posessive of her at times, and he is jealous. I also think Jack is used to getting his way, and what he wants--and Gwen also challenges him in that respect. in Meat, when he lets her go w/out the retcon, he realizes how he has changed. He finally did something against "the rules" because of how he feels about Gwen, that's a big deal for him, and he can't believe that he has done it--that is why he is so angry. Even Tosh knows it--you can see how she looks at him.

Gwen is also the person he calls for when Tosh is dying, and I don't think it has anything to do w/her skill set. Ianto is just as good at doing what the others do--we know that for sure.

that's it! I am used to writing a lot--BSG fan--we're big on sharing and debating our thoughts.
K

[SuperHolz_X]

I liked that post it wasn't bias. It was pretty damn truthful.
What annoys me is simply the people who'll say 'Gwens all over Jack why can't see
leave him alone, she's married and he doesn't want her' The only truth in a statement
like that is the fact she's married. He wants her as much as she wants him. They need
eachother to a cetain extent too. I think Jack wants Gwen to live a normal life, but is
too selfish (in terms of he her) to let her go and do so. It annoys me that people can actually
pretend that there's nothing there between them all. I mean I'm woman enough to admit Jack and
Gwen are in love as well as Jack and Ianto. It's not hard to see. Ianto has only ever loved
two people Jack and Lisa. Although I still think he had a more real/and a deeper connection with Lisa.

I rambled on there. What I'm trying to say is...
good post Koftroy. :)

[KofTroy]

I liked that post it wasn't bias. It was pretty damn truthful.
What annoys me is simply the people who'll say 'Gwens all over Jack why can't see
leave him alone, she's married and he doesn't want her' The only truth in a statement
like that is the fact she's married. He wants her as much as she wants him. They need
eachother to a cetain extent too. I think Jack wants Gwen to live a normal life, but is
too selfish (in terms of he her) to let her go and do so. It annoys me that people can actually
pretend that there's nothing there between them all. I mean I'm woman enough to admit Jack and
Gwen are in love as well as Jack and Ianto. It's not hard to see. Ianto has only ever loved
two people Jack and Lisa. Although I still think he had a more real/and a deeper connection with Lisa.

I rambled on there. What I'm trying to say is...
good post Koftroy. :)

Thanks! I've been dying to find somewhere to have a discussion about this show that's fun! It's such a great show to discuss, so much fodder to do so :big_grin:

I agree with you about Jack wanting Gwen to live a normal life, and at the same time he can't let her go.
I am not sure if he would react the same way if the situation was the same w/lanto. I can't even equate Meat with the situation in Cyberwoman because so much time passed, as Jack changed.

I said this on the other thread as well, but Jack is so gorgeous and dynamic, that I think he is used to being in control of who he wants to be with, both personally and professionally. I also think that he was a hot shot at any job he has ever done, so any pushback is hard for him, and confusing as well. So, I always bring up what he does in Meat because it was the first time he caved for someone else, not easy for someone who gets people to cave for him. I think that's why he needs Gwen because she is making him into a better person now, and still growing. I know there are those who say that it's all her not him, but it's not true. People also say that because he told lanto about Jonas that it meant that he confides in him. But that's not true because Jack felt guilty about not tell her, and poor lanto he's always like monkey in the middle when they have their blowouts.

I know that a lot of people think that lanto provides Jack with the support he needs to do what he does each day, but I have to say that maybe I do not think that I have a clear understanding of their relationship. I do not see that at all, I see him as someone who helps Jack, but is not his pillar of strength, like Gwen. I think after Gwen tells Jack that she is getting married, and he knows that they are not going to happen at the moment, he asks lanto out, because he likes him, and wants to try to have a relationship w/someone--seems very normal to me. I don't think he is in love w/lanto, and I do not think lanto is either-I think he is too broken from Lisa. Jack provides a relationship that is fun, and I can say loving, and not too demanding emotionally as well.

I liken it to how when you are falling hard for someone, but you are seeing someone else who you love very much, but you are not ready to let him/her go yet. I think that is how Gwen is w/Rhys, but now it has gone too far, now she's being a coward for not being able to try to be alone. I think Gwen treats Rhys so poorly, and the way she acted at her wedding--especially when dancing w/Jack was horrible, (of course I loved how cute she and Jack are together) so I think she needs to grow up and take some responsibility for her actions.
K

[AutumnRose]

Jack provides a relationship that is fun, and I can say loving, and not too demanding emotionally as well.


I agree that in series 1, definately, but less so in S2. They do seem to developing more trust in each other and there are some emotional scenes between them like the boardroom scene in Adam.


I think she needs to grow up and take some responsibility for her actions.

Me too! I always thought she should have faced the consequences of sleeping with Owen and the retconning Rhys.


I do not see that at all, I see him as someone who helps Jack, but is not his pillar of strength, like Gwen

Ah, see I don't see either of them as Jack's pillar of strength. I agree with you when you say Ianto helps him out - like in Fragments when they first met and Ianto saved him the weevil, which contrasts form how Jack met Tosh and Owen, where he saved them. I don't think Gwen is his pillar of strength either. Gwen has a life seperate from Torchwood, and I think thats what Jack loves about her, therefore I don't anything beyond close friendship would work between them because it would destroy what Jack liked about Gwen in the first place.

Ianto, on the other hand, is damaged, a little world weary, and his life revolves around TW, much like Jack. I think they ease each other's loneliness and understand each other.


I've been dying to find somewhere to have a discussion about this show that's fun! It's such a great show to discuss, so much fodder to do so

I agree! And discussing TW is great because there are some things which are deliberatly ambiguous which is equally frustrating and fun! :grin:

[gisyl]

I agree with you about Jack wanting Gwen to live a normal life, and at the same time he can't let her go.
I have to say that is both the strenght and the weakness of the relationship between them.

It is interesting,I always wonder what Gwen would do if Jack asked her to give up Rhys.
I doubt he will,since he allowed her that she didn`t retcon Rhys in Meat but still purely speculated.

[KofTroy]

I agree with you about Jack wanting Gwen to live a normal life, and at the same time he can't let her go.
I have to say that is both the strenght and the weakness of the relationship between them.

It is interesting,I always wonder what Gwen would do if Jack asked her to give up Rhys.
I doubt he will,since he allowed her that she didn`t retcon Rhys in Meat but still purely speculated.

Now that would be interesting right? Honestly I do not think he would, not unless he was sure--I don't think he has the courage to do it, plus he's seeing someone right now (not like it makes any difference, right?). But as we saw he'd rather let Gwen do what she wants than see her leave. That's always my big argument when folks say that there is nothing between them-he holds onto her, big time.

As for Gwen, I don't think she's as committed to Rhys as she thinks she is--I'll say she's trying, but I had read that she becomes even more committed to TWD after the death of Tosh (sniff!) and Owen (too grumpy for my taste)--talk about no chemistry, Owen and Tosh? So we'll see how that affects her and Rhys. Anyway, Jack needs to figure out what it means to be in a real relationship, ie. sex & love, and Gwen needs to figure out who she really is, and that includes being w/Jack and dealing w/her marriage--which I still think she refused to postpone so she could get away from Jack. She only got engaged because she thought he was never coming back. She even says she would have been married long ago if she had never met him--even if it was a monster she was talking too. It still bugs me how she danced more romantically w/him at her own wedding than w/Rhys! It was wrong in so many ways, that is how you look at your husband!! She and Rhys seem more like best friends than lovers. I would be kinda happy if Rhys manned up and met someone else, so she could finally get some consequences for her actions. :secret:
K

[fleur power]

i dont know why, but i love the whole jack and gwen story, and i watch it just to find out if anything happens between them too! i soo hope that something happens in series 3 between them becuase they have built it up so much, imagine if they didnt at least get together at least once, it wouldnt be Torchwood!

[ElectroxGirl]

I don't think anything will happen in series 3 as Euros Lyn has been going on about how Jack/Ianto is a big part this series.

[fleur power]

nooo!

ok yeah lol, this is my theory on sopme of the jack and gwen thing.
i think that they do love each other, but like when jack went away gwen was a bit shocked so like someone else said (sorry i can't remember who said it) i think that was one reasons why she got enaged, but i do thinks that she does love Rhys but in a different way to jack. she thought that she would never see jack again, so she had someone right there and then who loved her and was in a way willing to have heer for who she was and that she thought that marrying Rhys would help her get over jack because when you marry someone, you are supose to lvoe them with all your heart. but it seems it has just caused problems between her, jack and Rhys.

Anyone agree, disagree? x

[KofTroy]

nooo!

ok yeah lol, this is my theory on sopme of the jack and gwen thing.
i think that they do love each other, but like when jack went away gwen was a bit shocked so like someone else said (sorry i can't remember who said it) i think that was one reasons why she got enaged, but i do thinks that she does love Rhys but in a different way to jack. she thought that she would never see jack again, so she had someone right there and then who loved her and was in a way willing to have heer for who she was and that she thought that marrying Rhys would help her get over jack because when you marry someone, you are supose to lvoe them with all your heart. but it seems it has just caused problems between her, jack and Rhys.

Anyone agree, disagree? x

Exactly what I said! I don't see all the love between lanto and jack, or this strong connection many feel that they have--I just don't. I think jack is bossy w/lanto, and I know lanto is his boyfriend, but I don't think that he loves him like he does Gwen. I think the same about Rhys & Gwen, she's in love w/jack, but she's w/Rhys. i think lanto and Jack are good for eachother, but I don't think lanto makes Jack feel as guilty, upset or as angry as Gwen does, and that shows me how his feelings for Gwen are deeper. He holds onto her like no one else, and I also think that she has qualities he admires, and he feels that is helping him become a better person.

But he also in S1 & S2 seems to feel like he "owns" her--I don't know if that makes sense. It is one of the things he is learning to let go of--especially since KKBB when he saw how his team reacted to his disappearing act. For example: it began in Countrycide, when Owen told him that he would take care of Gwen--jack did not like that at all. First, he did not like Owen taking his spot so to speak, or the fact he knew something was going on w/Gwen. I was glad when he calls her out in End of Days.

In Something Borrowed, I think he was secretly loving being in control of Gwen's wedding day--I really did. He knew that he couldn't change it, but he pushes things to the limit, but he is unable to actually do anything. Why do I think this? Well "Meat" was before Something Borrowed, but his caving to her at the end, was a continuation of how in KKBB he is starting to open up. People say that the boardroom scene in Adam really showed how close he and Ianto are, but I disagree. He was getting really upset when he knew what Gwen was going to say, and he could not get that retcon into her fast enough--he is unable to do anything about his feelings for Gwen at this time, I don't think he can yet.

if they were both single and he was doing this, I would say to her--move on he's not ready. So they're both taken at the moment--and I still say, neither is ready. I don't think Gwen has ever been w/anyone but Rhys (well Owen) right? I want them to be together though, but I'm not sure yet if it will ever be feasible.
thoughts?
K

[Galadriel1010]

I think that Jack cares too much for RHYS to do anything more than flirt with Gwen. He's shown time and time again how important their relationship is to him, so I don't believe he'd jeopardise it or even pick her up if it broke down, hoping that she'd find another source of stability outside Torchwood. Apart from his respect for Rhys, Torchwood needs the outside link that he provides as much as she does, and I think that's what he accepted when he let her get away with not Retconing Rhys.

I also think that Gwen/Jack is best left as UST, just because it makes the place so tense and interesting. And sci-fi shows tend to bomb when central relationships solidify. Thank God TW didn't when Jack/Ianto formed.

[fleur power]

I think that Jack cares too much for RHYS to do anything more than flirt with Gwen. He's shown time and time again how important their relationship is to him, so I don't believe he'd jeopardise it or even pick her up if it broke down, hoping that she'd find another source of stability outside Torchwood. Apart from his respect for Rhys, Torchwood needs the outside link that he provides as much as she does, and I think that's what he accepted when he let her get away with not Retconing Rhys.

I also think that Gwen/Jack is best left as UST, just because it makes the place so tense and interesting. And sci-fi shows tend to bomb when central relationships solidify. Thank God TW didn't when Jack/Ianto formed.

yeah, i never thought of it that way.

[fleur power]

I think that Jack cares too much for RHYS to do anything more than flirt with Gwen. He's shown time and time again how important their relationship is to him, so I don't believe he'd jeopardise it or even pick her up if it broke down, hoping that she'd find another source of stability outside Torchwood. Apart from his respect for Rhys, Torchwood needs the outside link that he provides as much as she does, and I think that's what he accepted when he let her get away with not Retconing Rhys.

I also think that Gwen/Jack is best left as UST, just because it makes the place so tense and interesting. And sci-fi shows tend to bomb when central relationships solidify. Thank God TW didn't when Jack/Ianto formed.

yeah, i never thought of it that way.

[fleur power]

nooo!



Exactly what I said! I don't see all the love between lanto and jack, or this strong connection many feel that they have--I just don't. I think jack is bossy w/lanto, and I know lanto is his boyfriend, but I don't think that he loves him like he does Gwen. I think the same about Rhys & Gwen, she's in love w/jack, but she's w/Rhys. i think lanto and Jack are good for eachother, but I don't think lanto makes Jack feel as guilty, upset or as angry as Gwen does, and that shows me how his feelings for Gwen are deeper. He holds onto her like no one else, and I also think that she has qualities he admires, and he feels that is helping him become a better person.

But he also in S1 & S2 seems to feel like he "owns" her--I don't know if that makes sense. It is one of the things he is learning to let go of--especially since KKBB when he saw how his team reacted to his disappearing act. For example: it began in Countrycide, when Owen told him that he would take care of Gwen--jack did not like that at all. First, he did not like Owen taking his spot so to speak, or the fact he knew something was going on w/Gwen. I was glad when he calls her out in End of Days.

In Something Borrowed, I think he was secretly loving being in control of Gwen's wedding day--I really did. He knew that he couldn't change it, but he pushes things to the limit, but he is unable to actually do anything. Why do I think this? Well "Meat" was before Something Borrowed, but his caving to her at the end, was a continuation of how in KKBB he is starting to open up. People say that the boardroom scene in Adam really showed how close he and Ianto are, but I disagree. He was getting really upset when he knew what Gwen was going to say, and he could not get that retcon into her fast enough--he is unable to do anything about his feelings for Gwen at this time, I don't think he can yet.

if they were both single and he was doing this, I would say to her--move on he's not ready. So they're both taken at the moment--and I still say, neither is ready. I don't think Gwen has ever been w/anyone but Rhys (well Owen) right? I want them to be together though, but I'm not sure yet if it will ever be feasible.
thoughts?
K


yeah same, i just think the 'love' between jack and ianto isnt to past the tme but like because ianto is sort of there and then all the time if that makes sense without being like out of order lol. yeah i think the boardroom scene shows how his love for gwen for how he reacts and also just how he touches her and layed her head gently down on the table. and i love how each epidsode im alway on the edge of my seat waiting to find something and watch something between jack and gwen, even if it's just a cheecky little look or smile and a grin anjd i don't get annoyed but i duno, when jack and ianto get together.

as for Something Borrowed, i think, like you, he was almost wishing for something to occur just so that he could at least be apart of her special day because he almost has that special connection with her and it was already in way breaking his heart to see her go off with another man without so much of a glance to him in away. and he was glad to have control over him, gwen and Rhys.

aww i love jack!

[AutumnRose]

yeah i think the boardroom scene shows how his love for gwen for how he reacts and also just how he touches her and layed her head gently down on the table

I think that the boardroom scene in Adam shows the way Jack loves all his team. He also tenderly kisses Ianto on the forehead in that scene (getting closer to him than he did with the others) and Ianto confessed that Jack gave him meaning.

I think Jack and Gwen do love each other, but are not in love with each other.


aww i love jack!

Join the club! :grin:

[fleur power]

lol oh yeahhh :D x

[KofTroy]

aww i love jack!

Join the club! :grin:[/quote]

Right on, me too! I just don't see any growing trust w/lanto, I don't know why, i just don't see it! I'll rewatch s2, but to me, Jack always has the upper hand. I always just see him and lanto as dating, lots of recreational sex. I know they are a couple, though an odd one--but hey is anything in TW "normal"? The other thing is Gwen never appears jealous of Jack and lanto, but I think Jack gets possessive of Gwen, as we all know. So, this has always led me to believe that she either doesn't care (which I do not think is true), or she doesn't think that they are serious.

This show will never be on main network TV here, because of the best thing about it--people just fall in love men, women, and in Jack's case alien, and it doesn't matter. I really wanted Tosh to stay on the show, as I wanted to see her all happy w/someone like she was w/Adam, and the alien girl, right? She really did seem happy when she was w/that girl--I miss Tosh already.

Anyway, I'm all for jack & Gwen--my fave thing is seeing how the fact that he can't let her go, or that he caves for her, shows so much about his character. it shows how he is changing, how he knows that he is, and honestly sometimes I think that he doesn't understand how he feels about her, because his actions (I think) sometimes surprise him! I am also still of the mind that it is easier for him to have physical relationships w/men, and emotional ones w/women, I want to see him put both together.
k

[AutumnRose]

I just don't see any growing trust w/lanto, I don't know why, i just don't see it! I'll rewatch s2, but to me, Jack always has the upper hand.

I do see that Jack trusts Ianto very much, like in Adam when he just knows that Ianto isn't a serial killer. And in FoOTR when he tells Ianto about the Night Travellers. And in Adrift when Ianto is the only one who Jack's told about Flat Holm.

I don't think Jack has the upperhand all that much really, Jack was chasing Ianto in KKBB, it was Ianto who initiated the kiss in TTLM and the dance in SB and it was Ianto who suggested the stopwatch in TKKS.

I think that Jack loves both Gwen and Ianto, and I don't think that because he loves one of them, it undermines his love for the other.


Join the club!
Right on, me too!


Lol!

[Bananas]

I just don't see any growing trust w/lanto, I don't know why, i just don't see it! I'll rewatch s2, but to me, Jack always has the upper hand. I do see that Jack trusts Ianto very much, like in Adam when he just knows that Ianto isn't a serial killer. And in FoOTR when he tells Ianto about the Night Travellers. And in Adrift when Ianto is the only one who Jack's told about Flat Holm.

I don't think Jack has the upperhand all that much really, Jack was chasing Ianto in KKBB, it was Ianto who initiated the kiss in TTLM and the dance in SB and it was Ianto who suggested the stopwatch in TKKS.

I think that Jack loves both Gwen and Ianto, and I don't think that because he loves one of them, it undermines his love for the other. I agree with everything AutumnRose has said :big_grin:



I am also still of the mind that it is easier for him to have physical relationships w/men, and emotional ones w/women I'm guessing this is because Jack frequently refers to past relationships with men but in two seasons we've only seen evidence of two with women, Estelle and the woman he married?
However shortlived it was the "romance" with the real Captain Jack Harkness seemed more about the emotional than the physical... I would also suggest that the date scene in KKBB, the kiss scene in TTLM and Jack's total faith in Ianto in Adam show an emotional bond rather than just physical.

[KofTroy]

I just don't see any growing trust w/lanto, I don't know why, i just don't see it! I'll rewatch s2, but to me, Jack always has the upper hand. I do see that Jack trusts Ianto very much, like in Adam when he just knows that Ianto isn't a serial killer. And in FoOTR when he tells Ianto about the Night Travellers. And in Adrift when Ianto is the only one who Jack's told about Flat Holm.

I don't think Jack has the upperhand all that much really, Jack was chasing Ianto in KKBB, it was Ianto who initiated the kiss in TTLM and the dance in SB and it was Ianto who suggested the stopwatch in TKKS.

I think that Jack loves both Gwen and Ianto, and I don't think that because he loves one of them, it undermines his love for the other. I agree with everything AutumnRose has said :big_grin:



I am also still of the mind that it is easier for him to have physical relationships w/men, and emotional ones w/women I'm guessing this is because Jack frequently refers to past relationships with men but in two seasons we've only seen evidence of two with women, Estelle and the woman he married?
However shortlived it was the "romance" with the real Captain Jack Harkness seemed more about the emotional than the physical... I would also suggest that the date scene in KKBB, the kiss scene in TTLM and Jack's total faith in Ianto in Adam show an emotional bond rather than just physical.

I forgot about that, you're right! I also thought it has something to do w/how he would only be happy w/himself--that guy looked way too much like him, but he seemed kind, and compassionate, which is in Jack, just shoved down so deep, that we only see it ever so often. I had thought it was being used somewhat as a mirror for Jack; I don't know if that makes sense.

K

[amy1705]

I think that Jack loves both Gwen and Ianto, and I don't think that because he loves one of them, it undermines his love for the other.

Thank you!!! :woot: That is one of the main concepts of polyamory. Love for one does not cancel out love for another.


I am also still of the mind that it is easier for him to have physical relationships w/men, and emotional ones w/women

Through my many years of watching gay male mating habits, sex is like a how do you do, then they get to know each other. :omg:
Plus I just did a poll of gay males and he said that's right.

[fleur power]

yeah, i think that gwen doesnt get like possess about jack and ianto becuase maybe she doesnt see at as a real relationship, just someties like jack is doing with lots of sex involved. because she can't of done and been like how she is with jack to feel nothing about he is with ianto. and ianto, i know there isnt neccassarily anything going on with jack and gwen, but ainto has know idea about how they are with each other.

im a massive gwen and jack fan and i so hope they do something with them in s3 soo bad.

[KofTroy]

yeah, i think that gwen doesnt get like possess about jack and ianto becuase maybe she doesnt see at as a real relationship, just someties like jack is doing with lots of sex involved. because she can't of done and been like how she is with jack to feel nothing about he is with ianto. and ianto, i know there isnt neccassarily anything going on with jack and gwen, but ainto has know idea about how they are with each other.

im a massive gwen and jack fan and i so hope they do something with them in s3 soo bad.

me too, and I agree w/whomever said that he loves both of them; but I think in different ways. I am not sure if Jack can only have one partner at one time, or stay faithful physicallly or emotionally, that will remain to be seen! I know that some folks on the thread debating who jack should be w/, is very pro-lanto, and that will be the focus of S3. Honestly, I still don't see their relationship as a "slow burn" as someone put it; I just don't. I have never seen them connect emotionally like I think Gwen and Jack do; especially when they have their moments, and lanto and co. pretty much run the other way. He seems to avoid Jack right after he has a tiff w/Gwen--so he knows there's something up--I just don't think he cares that much, nor does Gwen w/lanto. I just think that we know for sure that he cannot let Gwen go, and lanto, I don't think he would be able to either; but many times he has not been all that nice lanto either. I think sometimes he talks to him like he's his errand boy. In Meat, he was clear in front of lanto about Gwen, in Adrift, when he told Gwen they were done, he called lanto to come in as there was "work to be done".

Finally, I said this earlier, I think writers never fully tell the truth at comicon etc.., as on BSG Apollo/Starbuck were a huge couple, and I was so sad at the finale--very traumatic I must say. So, I'm such a big skeptic now when people quote writers and directors, and say evidence is evidence! And interpretation is sujective, right? But I love Jack & Gwen--they wouldn't be together for a while if it were to happen, but I love how he acts w/her, and how her eyes seemed to be showing how badly she did not want him to agree to retcon her in Meat.

I am very intersted in S3! I have to say that I am also very sad about no Martha.
K

[fleur power]

yeah,. same. i think there is something between jack and ianto, butt not as deep as jack and gwen. and like, if you see in, im not sure what episode i think the first one of s2, when he finds out about her getting enaged, he acts like the typical jealous type, and almost heartbroken. and alsoin s1, where jack is teaching gwen about how to use the guns and all the weapons, you can tell straight away there there is going to be a a long running, continuous storyline going on, and you can tell that there is so much Chemistry between them already.

i don't know why, but i love finding facts out and bits between jack and gwen haha.

[KofTroy]

yeah,. same. i think there is something between jack and ianto, butt not as deep as jack and gwen. and like, if you see in, im not sure what episode i think the first one of s2, when he finds out about her getting enaged, he acts like the typical jealous type, and almost heartbroken. and alsoin s1, where jack is teaching gwen about how to use the guns and all the weapons, you can tell straight away there there is going to be a a long running, continuous storyline going on, and you can tell that there is so much Chemistry between them already.

i don't know why, but i love finding facts out and bits between jack and gwen haha.

Me too--I will admit that I HATE how Gwen retconned Rhys after she tells him the truth; that was the worse thing she has ever done and I hope he figures it out. I think that is the biggest betrayal of trust that anyone on this show has committed. I do not know if Jack has even done something that awful. This is one of the reasons why that before anything happens in Jack/Gwen ship, EVER, Rhys needs to know that, and there need to be some consequences for how she has treated him. I think she is afraid to be alone, and more so than ever because she sees how longely some of her team mates are/were. Honestly that may also be a personality issue; not totatlly TT's fault, right? (Owen & Tosh? I loved Tosh and was very sad to see her go). :resent:

it would be great to see how this would work for Gwen's character development. I think it would bring her closer to Jack, but not closer to having a relationship w/him. Afterall, who said "All of our actions have consequences"? He was so right-
k

[fleur power]

i don't know why, but i love finding facts out and bits between jack and gwen haha.

Me too--I will admit that I HATE how Gwen retconned Rhys after she tells him the truth; that was the worse thing she has ever done and I hope he figures it out. I think that is the biggest betrayal of trust that anyone on this show has committed. I do not know if Jack has even done something that awful. This is one of the reasons why that before anything happens in Jack/Gwen ship, EVER, Rhys needs to know that, and there need to be some consequences for how she has treated him. I think she is afraid to be alone, and more so than ever because she sees how longely some of her team mates are/were. Honestly that may also be a personality issue; not totatlly TT's fault, right? (Owen & Tosh? I loved Tosh and was very sad to see her go). :resent:

it would be great to see how this would work for Gwen's character development. I think it would bring her closer to Jack, but not closer to having a relationship w/him. Afterall, who said "All of our actions have consequences"? He was so right-
k[/quote]

yeah, i thinkk, say if stuff did happen with her and jack like for proper real, Rhys wiuld start to ask some questions because i think he sometimes feelsd a bit imtinited by jack, beccause like in Something Burrowed, he likes oh that torchwood, why can;t jack just leave us along, escepially on our Wedding Day, and all that and as soon as he stars to smell something fuishy, if something does happen, i think jack is who he will point at first.

[gisyl]

And in Adrift when Ianto is the only one who Jack's told about Flat Holm.
Actually,I watched Adrift yesterday and I got the impression that Owen knew about Flat Holm aswell,he just seemed to act like that.

I always get the feeling that Jack finds it tough to commit to anyone.
He loves them both but a full commitment to either of them,I don`t see happening.
Mostly because he already has the experience what it is to lose someone close and I get the feeling that that is something which he wants to avoid.

IMHO,that is also why he is pushing Gwen for a normal life with Rhys.
Offcourse,when Rhys got to know what Gwen`s job really was/is ,that went all flying out of the window

[fleur power]

yeah. and maybe, like you said, he is making gwen have the 'normal' life of a husband and children because he feels that way towards her and doesn't want to in away to dispoint her with like having a relationship with her but not going on with it, because he's almost afraid of the commitment side of a relationship.

whos knows?