Torchwood Series 3 Toned Down For US Market

[ElectroxGirl]

John Barrowman has revealed that Torchwood's Stateside popularity has led to the third season being toned down.

The Captain Jack Harkness actor told The People: "We're not swearing or doing anything close to the bone because it's been a huge success in the US and the networks won't accept it with all that stuff in it."

"We're doing everything so it doesn't have to be heavily edited for the US," Barrowman claimed, before adding: "I'll still be getting naked and it will still be saucy - but it's done with taste."

Torchwood has achieved record ratings on BBC America and moves to BBC One for a shortened run of five episodes, expected to be screened over consecutive nights in the Spring.

From Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a139378/new-torchwood-toned-down-for-us-market.html)

[Cobweb-Girl]

Thanks for Sharing!!

[lawsontl]

*begin preaching to choir*

Which seems a bit stupid, really, because BBC America is not a broadcast channel, it's pay cable. And, in some areas, it's not even a standard cable channel but one you have to add in as part of an extra tier. So why tame it down? We love it because it's NOT like everything else on in the US.

*sigh*

[Toshiholic]

*begin preaching to choir*

Which seems a bit stupid, really, because BBC America is not a broadcast channel, it's pay cable. And, in some areas, it's not even a standard cable channel but one you have to add in as part of an extra tier. So why tame it down? We love it because it's NOT like everything else on in the US.

*sigh*

I don't get that either. The "decency laws" don't apply to cable channels, only broadcast TV. If you ever watched "The Shield", it was way more graphic that Torchwood ever has been and it airs on a basic cable channel (FX). It was also extremely popular for its entire run!

[Timeless-II]

And there was me thinking it was a British production.....

[Kezzy]

Stops reading at the getting naked part........

[Tosh2]

it does seem a little silly that they have too "tone it down" for US

that means that we will see more than the US right?
surelllrley thats not fair

[Rheasilva]

thanks for posting!

Just thinking back to some of the episodes of Buffy which were heavy on the innuendo and there was quite a lot of nudity too. I think TW is only a bit stronger language-wise, but not the actual content. It's so annoying when the censors cut programmes because it's not giving the audience what the producer/director/actors etc have all worked so hard on.

[Stilyte]

it sounds like they're filming it with the U.S in mind so guess we'll see the episodes they eventually will. it is a bit annoying considering that Torchwood isn't full of sex, violence and bad language (well not all the time anyway) it's mostly hinted at and put down by the excellent writers. I don't think of it as anything stronger than shows that have already been aired. But luckily the Torchwood writers are great so hopefully it won't be effected too much.

[Michael]

I would just like to apologise on behalf of this country for this ridiculous, puritanical censorship.

Ooh... I'm angry....

[The doctor11]

im not sure how torchwood got popular in america, half of them still think that electricity is the work of the devil, children should be bald and worship christ or be killed

[ElectroxGirl]

The Americans love Torchwood for being Torchwood! I really don't understand why they're changing it at all! It's a British show so they should just keep doing what they want to do with it instead of thinking about how it would have to change for the US. They'd watch the UK version of Torchwood anyway!

[owlpost1992]

Why change what was a winning formula? :dontknow:

[51stCenturyFox]

The Wire, Sopranos, The L Word. Big swearing, nudity, same sex relationships and worse violence than TW.

It must be BBC America's advertisers. Either that or John's not right... maybe.

It may be syndicated to the Sci Fi channel, perhaps? Not sure. I don't think HDNet cares what content is broadcast.

[Meef]

"im not sure how torchwood got popular in america, half of them still think that electricity is the work of the devil, children should be bald and worship christ or be killed " Said the Doctor 11

At least we have better graphics and more then 4 Channels. so what if we don't here the f-word every minute. Torchwood isn't that racy. It is actually pretty tame. BBC America is the one cutting it up. They did the same with Skins and Primeval. They have to fit in commercials. It's the same as when Dexter went to CBS. They removed some of the violence and when the Sopranos went to A&E, the same thing happened. Not everything is right for everyone. If you want it intact,buy the DVDs. I'm sure not everyone in The UK approves of every show.

[devy25]

I would just like to apologise on behalf of this country for this ridiculous, puritanical censorship.

Ooh... I'm angry....

Amen to that!

[The doctor11]

"im not sure how torchwood got popular in america, half of them still think that electricity is the work of the devil, children should be bald and worship christ or be killed " Said the Doctor 11

At least we have better graphics and more then 4 Channels. so what if we don't here the f-word every minute. Torchwood isn't that racy. It is actually pretty tame. BBC America is the one cutting it up. They did the same with Skins and Primeval. They have to fit in commercials. It's the same as when Dexter went to CBS. They removed some of the violence and when the Sopranos went to A&E, the same thing happened. Not everything is right for everyone. If you want it intact,buy the DVDs. I'm sure not everyone in The UK approves of every show.

i admit that is very generalising (what i said) but the fact remains homosexuality and a lot of personal freedom is hated in america, and that shows how much you know about the UK, 4 channels eh? we have had more than that since the early 90's!i dont care about swearing that could go for i all care but the fact is that torchwood personifies a lot of things which in a lot of the southern states is still punishable by death by mob

[Meef]

OK, I don't want to get upset. The UK just started civil union in 2005. I live in New Jersey, which will more or likely change to same sex marriage soon. It takes time for change to happen any where. Don't get on your high horse over things. Beside the homesexual content was still in play on BBC America. They didn't sensor that. Nor do they in most TV. House, Bones, as example. What the red state are like will change in time. They are still angrey about the North kicking there butts in the Civil War. I'm sure the UK is not with out their Red Necks. And besides if change was not comming would we have elected Barack Obama. Oh Yes We Did!

[Timeless-II]

:mods:

Hope we're playing nicely in the sandpit today.... :D

[The doctor11]

but on that very same time as barack obama being elected, was it one or two states that elected to not having gay marriages? im sorry but i dont want to get involved with the North and South divide in the US cause we have it pretty bad over here
Im sorry im being harsh so ill leave it *gets that train he ordered*

[51stCenturyFox]

The UK's four channels (back when I lived there and had four channels and no satellite) were better than US WITH satellite!

Even your Big Brother is better. LOL. British TV is WIN.

We've actually got 5 'basic' channels that everyone who has a TV and license can watch. But most of us have extra channels through freeview, Sky, or some other package. It's not so much quantity as quality that counts. Personally I still thinks the BBC still makes some of the best TV. TW is screened on BBC2 which is generally considered a little more 'cutting edge' than BBC1. DW is on BBC1 because it's more family oriented and gets larger viewing figures.

[Meef]

My point is that the grass is always greener. I live in the USA . Just because a TV show is liberal, isn't a countries point of view. Don't pretend to know what this country is about. California is not normal. And you can blame The Mormons on Pro 8. That kind of vote goes against the state's constitution. It will be over turned. I'm sorry if I'm upset. But I love my country. It is still the best place to live. It is capacity to change that makes us great. Obama will lead us that way. Bush was an idiot. But I bet a lot of you are to young to remember Margaret Thatcher. Listen to Bob Dylan's "The times they are a changin'" We are getting into a political debate over a TV show. Sorry if I stepped on toes. But the last 8 years have been like a bad dream.
I have a good feeling about the future.

[The doctor11]

i know about margaret thatcher and the damage she did to our country, im sorry if you are upset but i dont care if we are discussing politics with a tv show, im glad that your proud of your country but the way i see it is that your country is so very different and yet alike to our own but we have been so "americanised" it sickens me im sorry but we (as in the uk) have our own things, our tv and it is being americanised and this is a prime example

[Meef]

Hey doc
what do you mean by Americanised?

[emz.buckley]

What the doc means is that a lot of our shows are watered down and re edited for american audiences. It does depend thought on what channel you are picked up by. If it is a main channel, then tend to water them down a lot, swearing taken out, innuendo cut down, nudity cut down, etc. Now if you are picked up by a cable channel, they tend to leave things as they are. Now, being in england i can't tell you where BBC america lies but yo have also got to look at what goes on in america. You have certain groups who complain over the smallest things. :googly1: There is a ban on showing bottoms before 10 o'clock and lets not get into the whole Janet Jackson thing.

The thing you have to remember is that unlike here, america is, no offense to any one who is american, but they are more religious than us. Britain has gotten past the whole, violence, sex, swearing and gay issue, we don't really care as long as the plot is good. Yes we do have complaints but it is nothing compared to america. They have a lot of groups who watch every tiny little thing and if they see something what they think is wrong they make a whole thing about it and also a lot of people try to sue some of these channels because of these things and also will try to get shows canceled because of it as well. I'm not surprised that they will water it down because that is the american market at the moment, no matter how stupid it is.

[The doctor11]

thanks emz, thats nailed it on the head

[Stilyte]

With all the satelite channels i still prefer the main 5 channels but do love some of the american stuff. the l word, six feet under and others dont have that much difference in basic content to Torchwood. Going back the to the first page (sorry am lazy and dont have the energy to go back and see who wrote it as had already started my writing and didnt want to redo it) people love Torchwood for being torchwood. It is a winning formula but at least this is a shorter series. The writers will be trying something new and it might not be that different and if it is then its a learning curve and hopefully the response would be strong enough to go back the original format

[51stCenturyFox]

What the doc means is that a lot of our shows are watered down and re edited for american audiences. It does depend thought on what channel you are picked up by. If it is a main channel, then tend to water them down a lot, swearing taken out, innuendo cut down, nudity cut down, etc. Now if you are picked up by a cable channel, they tend to leave things as they are. Now, being in england i can't tell you where BBC america lies but yo have also got to look at what goes on in america. You have certain groups who complain over the smallest things. :googly1: There is a ban on showing bottoms before 10 o'clock and lets not get into the whole Janet Jackson thing.

The thing you have to remember is that unlike here, america is, no offense to any one who is american, but they are more religious than us. Britain has gotten past the whole, violence, sex, swearing and gay issue, we don't really care as long as the plot is good. Yes we do have complaints but it is nothing compared to america. They have a lot of groups who watch every tiny little thing and if they see something what they think is wrong they make a whole thing about it and also a lot of people try to sue some of these channels because of these things and also will try to get shows canceled because of it as well. I'm not surprised that they will water it down because that is the american market at the moment, no matter how stupid it is.

America has some extremely violent stuff on mainstream, early evening TV. But yes, the major networks are more prudish. Swingtown no get renewal: http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/05/ ... gtown.html (http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/05/06/arts/1194817092127/trailer-swingtown.html)

In the UK, I guess the watershed is 9pm, then the swearing may begin.

[Meef]

It is great that I live in The USA and don't know what goes on in my country. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I live in such a naive state of mind. I've only been watching TV since 1966 so I really have nothing to compare today's TV too. I know that was nasty. Please forgive that. These groups don't sue over TV, they go to the FCC. And please we are not all religious fruit loops either. And if a show is popular no one listens to these small minorities. I don't watch the main networks much except for fox and that's for house and bones. which both have bisexuals on them. My point was that I watch both seasons on Torchwood on BBC America and DVD and only the swearing and some weird cuts for commercials were taken out. All the sex and gay kissing was there. So I don't think you should worry about your TV suffering. If It bothers go complain to BBC, oh wait You'll be come on of those groups like we have here.

[Undead Medic]

And please we are not all religious fruit loops either. And if a show is popular no one listens to these small minorities.

Granted it is only a minority of Americans who are "religious fruit loops" (Great description by the way) But no one can deny that they are a small and vocal minority, and that they do hold sway over the networks with their puritanical dogma, and whilst things may or may not get edited maybe boundaries aren't getting pushed as often as they would without their input.
The UK is getting just as bad however, with the current government's habit of blaming rising crime on TV, video games (especially those, apparently they're evil) the internet, and anything but declining parental standards and a general sense of apathy towards authority figures. Only this week they have come up with the ludicrous idea of "Age Stamping" the Internet. We are going back to the days of Mary Whitehouse and her daft WI cronies bleating about every small piece of "offensive" TV to BBC Points of View with alarming regularity. Did anyone with sense ever take that woman seriously? probably not, but she still got airtime, and there were always those who were willing to sacrifice freedom of expression to pander to her somewhat anachronistic prejudices.
I am anti-censorship for grown adults, with Children obviously there have to be limits, but there is nothing in Torchwood that should cause adults any harm, If A network feel they can't show a programme to an adult audience without sanitizing it then perhaps it shouldn't be shown (On their network) at all.
Just my opinion.

[Timeless-II]

Good debate "guys and guyettes".... nice to see things not getting too personal.....

[Morrison]

*begin preaching to choir*

Which seems a bit stupid, really, because BBC America is not a broadcast channel, it's pay cable. And, in some areas, it's not even a standard cable channel but one you have to add in as part of an extra tier. So why tame it down? We love it because it's NOT like everything else on in the US.

*sigh*

I don't get that either. The "decency laws" don't apply to cable channels, only broadcast TV. If you ever watched "The Shield", it was way more graphic that Torchwood ever has been and it airs on a basic cable channel (FX). It was also extremely popular for its entire run!

You're forgetting Nip/Tuck another FX show which I find 100% more sexual/graphic than Torchwood, in fact I'd say it's more graphic and sexual than the Shield as well (I'm fan of both shows). I honestly can't figure out why they'd want to tone down Torchwood unless they were showing it early in the day, but I don't know why'd they do that, the only thing I can imagine is they want a bigger audience but then if that's the truth what's the point of having a adult version of Doctor Who?

The time slot does make a difference. In the UK at one stage they had re-runs of Buffy on at around 6pm and these were cut for language, violence and nudity. If you've seen the episodes in their 'full' version you really notice the cuts. If you haven't then maybe you wouldn't notice???

[Undead Medic]

I just don't think it's fair to the US fans that they only get about two thirds of an episode, I read somewhere that even the US DVD releases feature cut episodes...

I agree, it's not fair.

[The doctor11]

i think mary whitehouse was right in what she said, i felt so sorry for her when i saw that documentary of her with julie walters as mary whitehouse; she was a teacher who found society unravelling beecause of TV, what she said is right and i think we should bring that kind of thing back

[Undead Medic]

i think mary whitehouse was right in what she said, i felt so sorry for her when i saw that documentary of her with julie walters as mary whitehouse; she was a teacher who found society unravelling beecause of TV, what she said is right and i think we should bring that kind of thing back

Torchwood wouldn't even exist if Mrs Whitehouse had got her way, she was against even heterosexual relationships being portrayed on TV, showing two characters holding hands was enough to get her riled. I agree there have to be standards of decency but she wanted the complete sanitation of the airwaves. Some of her main bugbears were Doctor Who and Tom and Jerry??? And as for her reaction to the first gay kiss in a UK soap (Eastenders1987, which incidentally was just a kiss on the forehead) well let us just say that prejudices haven't changed much:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... rshed.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1075617/Complaints-pour-BBC-EastEnders-screens-gay-kiss-watershed.html)

Prejudice and intolerance, not the sort of values I cherish.

In her mind she undoubtedly had good intentions, but in my opinion she took it way too far, I don't find these scenes offensive and I fail to understand why anybody else would find them any more distasteful than a straight kiss.

[The doctor11]

well i think she was acting out of more against horror and language althought against relationships but dont forget she lived through the war but its only my opinion that i thought she had good intentions

[nptorchwood]

Im sorry i walked into this conversation...

Torchwood is Torchwood! Whatever country you view it in, if you like it, you'll like it for what it is.
I would be really peeved though if i made a show and they'd cut out my parts id put hard work into, but hey.

Im intrigued now... Do they cut down Heroes for the UK's BBC???

[The doctor11]

thats a good question, like i wonder if they cut down down desperate housewives for UK's channel 4?

[Stilyte]

I'm not 100% sure but i think we pretty much get the American ones as they come. they don't seem to think the British will be offended by the content...anything goes with us lot!

[Toshiholic]

I'm not 100% sure but i think we pretty much get the American ones as they come. they don't seem to think the British will be offended by the content...anything goes with us lot!

Has The Shield been shown over there?

[Meef]

I don't know if they get The Shield in The UK. Wikipedia said no. So maybe not. You know I said this before. I watched both the British version and BBC America's version of Torchwood and despite editing for commercial, just the f-word was cut out. Shit was aloud and all the man on man action was still there. Because BBCA is owned by the Discovery Channel, they need to advertise so they can pay for UK programs. I think that what JB meant in the interview. I read the article. They didn't want it to be cut up. The show is not that racy. Actually it geared for teenagers. If you want raw, watch Sons of Anarchy, by the guy who wrote the The Shield. If CBS could show Dexter and not get that much shit for it,(the got rid of some of the gore) Then I don't see why a little bit of editing hurts. Dexter is far worse than Torchwood.

[Meef]

By the Way Happy New Year to all.

[Undead Medic]

By the Way Happy New Year to all.

Happy New Year to you too. :drunk1:

[Roqui]

tone down what?

it ain't filthy enough as it is! :tongue: :laugh:

let's get some steamy Janto this time round, butt cheeks and all. :spite:

[Stilyte]

not gonna say no to that!

[owlpost1992]

Well, JB did say he was going to be butt naked in this season.

[Roqui]

Well, JB did say he was going to be butt naked in this season.

:swoon: really? OMG, i hope he convinces GDL to do it to. :grin:

[clare616]

I don't understand why an american audience is dictating the content of a british show. Just how much does BBCA pay to show TW?

I don't know how the system realy works in the US, I would have thought TW would be much more at home on HBO or showtime, the beeb has pleantly of links with HBO - eg: Rome. That was rude as hell so why change TW? Don't get it. If they have toned down too much for this series I will be complaining to the beeb though. I want a pro liberalism scandal, far more mental than the Ross/Brand sillyness :)

[Meef]

BBCA is owned by The Discovery Channel. They show Torchwood on BBCA because it is a British program. You should see what The Scifi channel did to Doctor Who. Also I suggest you read the JB interview in The People. For the last time Torchwood was not cut up much for American TV. Your BBC started toning it down for your Family TV last year. Second season uncut wasn't as racey as season 1. And Rome is far worst then Torchwood. Torchwood is very tame. It is cut to fit commercials and the f word is removed. We are not dictating the content of a British show. Please stop blaming us.

[Undead Medic]

Season 2 of Torchwood isn't as racey as season 1 apparently.

Kiss, kiss, Bang, Bang?

[Meef]

I thought the sex scene between Owen and Diane was better then Jack and John's Kiss. Also Captain Jack and Jack was hotter.

[Kezzy]

Agrees with Meef....that was hot.
I wanted to be Diane LOL

[Meef]

Thanks Kezzy

[Banshee]

Season 2 of Torchwood isn't as racey as season 1 apparently.

Kiss, kiss, Bang, Bang?

Hear, hear! And that is just the one episode...

[Stilyte]

am i the only one who finds it slightly amusing that torchwood is shown on a channel owned by the discovery channel?

[The doctor11]

lol! hehe i get it

[Undead Medic]

"You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals..." I'm embarrassed to even remember that song... :blusher:

[PoisonIvy]

Just a quick FYI, our Beeb (that is BBCAmerica) and your Beeb (that is the!BBC) aren't viewed at all in the same light. In fact, I'd wager most American's don't watch BBCA or don't even know they have it. Now, for those who do that's pretty awesome that that majority watch TW, but that's still an EPIC!minority in the long run.

The breakdown, for non-Yanks:

Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, and I guess PBS would be our mainstream, major non-cable networks. They are the equivalent to BBC1, BBC2, ITV, 4, and Five. That is, everyone gets them in the States and they are the most universally watched. These are the channels that have given us Friends, House, CSI, Supernatural (behold my bias :tongue: teehee...), Heroes, Lost, Survivor, American Idol, The Simpsons, etc, etc, etc.

Then we have basic cable channels like Comedy Central, TBS, USA, Cartoon Network, etc. This would equal out to most of your Sky packaging and the like, too. And BBC America is usually, depending on the provider, lumped in here. My BBCA is channel 121 and waaaayyy beyond a bunch of craptastic channels, so I can see people not going over WE (channel 70) or FX (channel 60) for their own sanity in my region and thus not knowing BBCA. And I only got BBCA in the last few years... our package didn't always provide it. So, I don't know if we upgraded or it became standard. :dontknow:

HBO and Showtime are special, premium channels that you have to add in extra. This is why their content can be disgustingly graphic and racy because you don't have these channels unless you know you have these channels and parents know to filter them if necessary. These are fully elected and willfully gotten and most Americans know what goes on therein.

So, comparing Torchwood to say Rome or The Sopranos is rather silly, as it's not on one of the premium channels, and is therefore not allowed free range. But, I don't think BBC1 or BBC2 would show the HBO or Showtime shows unedited, either, no matter how tame your feelings of censorship are. But, comparing TW to the hypercritical censorship put on Fox or NBC shows, isn't quite right, either. Because most Americans don't watch BBCA (while they do the major networks)! I think the fairest equivalent is to other cable shows. Nip/Tuck, for instance, is an apt example of why TW isn't that racy for cable. TW hasn't BEGUN to approach the boundaries of that show, so if they can do what they do and get away with it on a much more visible channel (again FX isn't like Fox, so there's some leeway, but I'd say more people are aware of FX shows than BBCA shows), then TW should surely be allowed to continue on as it has. BBCA, as it's been stated earlier, barely edits for content. The snoggage, the "sex", the language (save the f-bomb) are all as they were in their original, BBC2 content.

I watch both versions to support BBCA's numbers for TW and to get it earlier and in full. And mostly they edit for time. In Adrift, for example, instead of having Gwen walking into the hub, calling out to them and the up the stairs to discover Jack and Ianto, they have her just walking in on them and cut out those first extra bits with her alone (and yes, the "naked hide and seek" is there in all it's glory). It's a like a minute of run time with no dialog and no overall contribution to the plot, so the nix it to fit in commercials. Beyond that, the homosexual snoggage and everything that follows is most assuredly still there. And no one has raised a stink.

I live in the Southern States, and I can safely say most of the fruitloops around here have NO IDEA what Doctor Who or Torchwood are, so why would they make a fuss?! I've not seen anything that is against TW and TW's content in the slightest save when the UK sources said it'd be toned down for UK pre-watershed airings. That's it. America doesn't care because America doesn't know! And those who do know, those who tend to be Anglophiles or geeks, are more open to it and simply don't care. :happy:

So, why JB is claiming we Yanks are the ones to have the content toned down, I have no earthly idea. I'm not saying he's wrong, I just don't get why BBCA would be saying that at all! Nothing on BBCA is geared towards families, that's not the point of the channel (the point is to bring popular British tv to Americans... the Family Channel is, well, more family oriented, go fig! :wink:). Sci-Fi has more of the viewing audience for DW, so I can see Sci-Fi being more content focused when it comes to that program because it's a family show. But I can't see BBCA switching things up just 'cause. Maybe if CBS was getting it or something, that might jar the sensors, but where it is now, it's fine just as it is. It's cruising under the radar and in a place that even if it DOES get noticed, it has so little impact on the majority of Americans, I don't think it'd matter. In fact, bringing a puritanical rant down on it would only draw awareness to it in general, and that'd be a bit counterintuitive.

[Kazzie]

That's a nice explanation, I have to say.

I just don't get why they have to do it, seeing as it's a British show airing primarily in Britain. I guess it's the massive influence of America against this puny little island.

But, out of curiosity, does the word fuck really get cut, and not sex scenes? XD

[Undead Medic]

And why does swearing get cut and guns and shooting not? Which is the more reprehensible, to shoot someone or to swear at them?

[PoisonIvy]

I just don't get why they have to do it, seeing as it's a British show airing primarily in Britain. I guess it's the massive influence of America against this puny little island.

But, out of curiosity, does the word fuck really get cut, and not sex scenes? XD

I can't even begin to fathom why, either. Unless it's purely viewership. Though I stress that only a few Americans watch it (or BBCA), that total might still be more than if the majority of Brits watched it owning simply to the fact that we have a crap-ton of people here. :laugh: Maybe we just give it more funding? And tv is a medium that will whore itself to the money?

As to the f-word vs sex scenes, full on sex scenes do get cut on regular network/cable tv. For example, I didn't know Life of Brian had full frontal nudity until I saw it on the BBC in London! Here that's completely blurred/cut out. But, suggestions of sex, which is really all TW does as you don't see any private parts, are fine with the sensors to a degree. The f-word I guess goes hand in hand with actual sex, and is therefore not permissible. :dontknow:

And people have to remember that America was a country started by Puritans, people who left England because England was "corrupt" religiously and wanted to find their idealized "city on a hill". So, despite how free we may seem and may be moving towards, we still have deeply puritanical roots that we have to fight against and it makes that progression slow.

[Kazzie]

I just don't get why they have to do it, seeing as it's a British show airing primarily in Britain. I guess it's the massive influence of America against this puny little island.

But, out of curiosity, does the word fuck really get cut, and not sex scenes? XD

I can't even begin to fathom why, either. Unless it's purely viewership. Though I stress that only a few Americans watch it (or BBCA), that total might still be more than if the majority of Brits watched it owning simply to the fact that we have a crap-ton of people here. :laugh: Maybe we just give it more funding? And tv is a media that will whore itself to the money?

As to the f-word vs sex scenes, full on sex scenes do get cut on regular network/cable tv. For example, I didn't know Life of Brian had full frontal nudity until I saw it on the BBC in London! Here that's completely blurred/cut out. But, suggestions of sex, which is really all TW does as you don't see any private parts, are fine with the sensors to a degree. The f-word I guess goes hand in hand with actual sex, and is therefore not permissible. :dontknow:

And people have to remember that America was a country started by Puritans, people who left England because England was "corrupt" religiously and wanted to find their idealized "city on a hill". So, despite how free we may seem and may be moving towards, we still have deeply puritanical roots that we have to fight against and it makes that progression slow.
Ah, I guess that the whole Jack/Ianto sex hidden half by a desk is acceptable then? It kind of makes sense if you think about it I suppose.

You're making me regret not doing Early Modern History, what with it's Puritans and witch craft now. This country was so debauched at that point next to pure, dull America. (I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here.)

[nobleroman1]

PoisonIvy - I agree with your 1st comment. Honestly, I was a bit baffled by JB's statement. I live in Florida (a southern state, also) and in my particular cable system, BBCA is part of our Digital package. Additionally, I work for a cable provider which provides a varied lineup - including all of the channels listed in your explanation - at a ridiculously cheap rate (for its employees), so of course, the employees have every channel provided. Of the people that I directly work with, none of them watch BBCA, let alone know what TW or Dr. Who are. I'm the only one . Moreover, as an employee of a cable provider, I have access to several national industry magazines which of course provide information on industry happenings including viewer outcries. As a fan of TW, I diligently scourer the magazines in search of articles/info on TW and/or BBCA. And quite honestly, I have NEVER read a negative article regarding TW or BBCA. EVERYTHING has been positive.

[Meef]

FCC or the Discovery Channel probably doesn't like the F-word. The Family Channel didn't show the last season of Beauty and the Beast because it was dirty. Catherine has sex with Vincent and she conceives a child. It all depends on the channel. That's why we have free speech. And speak for yourself about Puritan roots. Our Founding Fathers were no Puritans. And I traced my family back to the revolution and before. And we were not Puritans. So by your logical all Austrians are criminals. I know that's not true. BBC America has had increased revenue This year because of Torchwood see link http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ju ... feed=media (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/08/bbc.television6?gusrc=rss&feed=media) I made a mistake. The owner of BBC America is BBC Worldwide Americas distributed by Discovery Communications. The Discovery Channel .The BBC is making money off of Torchwood over here. Read the link. Maybe this will put some light on it.

[Kazzie]

FCC or the Discovery Channel probably doesn't like the F-word. The Family Channel didn't show the last season of Beauty and the Beast because it was dirty. Catherine has sex with Vincent and she conceives a child. It all depends on the channel. That's why we have free speech. And speak for yourself about Puritan roots. Our Founding Fathers were no Puritans. And I traced my family back to the revolution and before. And we were not Puritans. So by your logical all Austrians are criminals. I know that's not true. BBC America has had increased revenue This year because of Torchwood see link http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ju ... feed=media (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/08/bbc.television6?gusrc=rss&feed=media) I made a mistake. The owner of BBC America is BBC Worldwide Americas distributed by Discovery Communications. The Discovery Channel .The BBC is making money off of Torchwood over here. Read the link. Maybe this will put some light on it.Off topic here but the prominent founding history we're taught, at least, goes back to Puritans and others just wanting to escape Britain. My knowledge of colonisation of the USA/Australia kind of starts and ends with The Crucible and Abel Magwitch.

[Meef]

Face it England had it's moments of being oppressive as well. This board has turned out to be the place of knowledge and free thought. I love it. Hugs to all.

[nobleroman1]

FCC or the Discovery Channel probably doesn't like the F-word. The Family Channel didn't show the last season of Beauty and the Beast because it was dirty. Catherine has sex with Vincent and she conceives a child. It all depends on the channel. That's why we have free speech. And speak for yourself about Puritan roots. Our Founding Fathers were no Puritans. And I traced my family back to the revolution and before. And we were not Puritans. So by your logical all Austrians are criminals. I know that's not true. BBC America has had increased revenue This year because of Torchwood see link http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/ju ... feed=media (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/08/bbc.television6?gusrc=rss&feed=media) I made a mistake. The owner of BBC America is BBC Worldwide Americas distributed by Discovery Communications. The Discovery Channel .The BBC is making money off of Torchwood over here. Read the link. Maybe this will put some light on it.

Meef - Excluding the Top Gear and revenue mentions, the following quote from the article/link your provided very much reflects what I've read in the national industry mags:

"US revenues came predominantly from the BBC America. UK series such as Torchwood and Top Gear helped to double BBC America's ratings in the key 25 to 54 age group and add 7 million subscribers overall."

[Kazzie]

Face it England had it's moments of being oppressive as well. This board has turned out to be the place of knowledge and free thought. I love it. Hugs to all.A whole year of studying Imperialism has taught me that. :'D

[Dimes]

So, why JB is claiming we Yanks are the ones to have the content toned down, I have no earthly idea. I'm not saying he's wrong, I just don't get why BBCA would be saying that at all!
I'm way late to this discussion, but I really have to say I think JB is wrong. There is no conceivable reason for BBCA not to accept TW S3 unedited when we already got the first 2 series unedited and, as pointed out, they didn't do much editing other than for time, the f word, and the racier sex scenes (Owen/Diane).

I think with the move to BBC1 they are going for a slightly more mainstream audience anyway; maybe I'm way off base here, but I bet JB probably figures it will go over better to blame it on BBCA and Americans than to just admit they're toning the show down to attract more mainstream viewers, which would piss off the majority of the current fanbase because we like Torchwood as it is.

But then, we've also seen both GDL and Kai say that it wasn't going to be toned down much at all, and would definitely still be post-watershed, right? I love John, but occasionally when he gives interviews I get the feeling he's pulling things out of his ass or just plain doesn't know what he's talking about. I hope that's the case with these comments, rather than my theory above.

[Undead Medic]

...So by your logical all Austrians are criminals...

I'm presuming you meant Australians rather than Austrians?

[PoisonIvy]

...So by your logical all Austrians are criminals...

I'm presuming you meant Australians rather than Austrians?

'Austrians' is funnier though, by my logical. :happy:

[Meef]

It was late.

[The doctor11]

lol very logical
i think JB was chatting out of his arse on that interview but the basic point is, if they want to appeal to a american audience, which doesnt pay for the BBC (by taxpayers money) then why doesnt BBCA team up with another channel and make a american torchwood? it comes down to the fact that, why should it be changed for a audience which doesnt keep the BBC in reality?

[Meef]

It does pay the BBC money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_America This will explain it all to you.

[Timeless-II]

I think some of the 'trouble' we have here in the (not so)United Kingdom, is that we can so easily spot many more of our shows being made 'for the American market' (just a phrase). I appreciate that the BBC needs a larger income from abroad now, and quite a few (drama, for example) programmes are made by 'foreign investment'. Traditionally, the BBC made for the British licence paying people - but we have to accept that that is no longer financially viable.

[Meef]

The USA has sold it shows all over the world. Why should the UK be any different. Besides if the only difference is the swear words,who cares. I still think JB meant for commercial reasons not sexual content. They aired Skins with very little removed. Though they did remove the word beaver from Top Gear. I don't know why. I think it's more for the parents so if their kid watched the show, they don't have to worry about it. Besides you watered down the second season for families and children. And since most of you keep saying Doctor Who is a kids show, most Doctor fans watch Torchwood. Maybe it is also for the younger viewers on your end. What other shows have been made for the American Market?

[Timeless-II]

.... And since most of you keep saying Doctor Who is a kids show, most Doctor fans watch Torchwood. Maybe it is also for the younger viewers on your end. What other shows have been made for the American Market?

Doctor Who is a family show.... but Torchwood was initially introduced to us as an adult spin-off. I guess we had hoped it would stay adult based... but then, I was less keen on the second series due to the over-emphasis on 'relationships'...

[Meef]

When Dragon Ball Z came over to the US , cut the crap out of it. When I saw the show as it aired in Japan. I went wow this is a kids show. We are not that prudish, but I think our view of a kids show is different then yours in the UK and also Japan(which makes the best shows ever.) My point was that the introduction of Captian Jack on Doctor Who took it to a different level then the stander kids show (there wasn't even sex in the old Doctor Who and he didn't fall for his companions.) Captain Jack appealed to kids. Show they started watching Torchwood. What other Kids show in the UK has romance and kissing and suggest sexual behavior? Don't says Skins that's young adult.

[The doctor11]

well they intended torchwood to be an adult show, for ADULTS yes big people, now DW fans who like captain jack do watch TW, but that wasnt what was intended. I know you pay a bit for BBCA but like what timey was saying, taxpayers money makes up the majority of money into the BBC

[Meef]

I pay a whole $2.50 for BBCA per month. If the viewership changes the show usually changes. My point was, different countries have different ideas of what a kid show is.In the USA Doctor Who is considered more young adult then for children. I'm not saying kids don't watch it here in the States. But it was shown on The SciFi channel first, which cuts shows to ribbons. The UK got the uncut version of Farscape when that came out. I waited for the DVD releases and saw it uncut. Again not much difference.
If BBCA makes money for The BBC then you shouldn't care. In the time of economic crises, be grateful. The first thing to go , popular or not is the most expensive TV show. So if you loses a little of the swear words or whatever and the show can go to another season then isn't that more important? Hell yeah! Be a peace my friend. Like my Mom always says. "It always comes out in the wash." Don't ask I really don't know what it means it just fits.

[Timeless-II]

.... What other Kids show in the UK has romance and kissing and suggest sexual behavior? Don't says Skins that's young adult.

I can think of two (hey, it's early - and I haven't watched kids' telly for over twenty years!):
'Grange Hill' 1978-2008 and 'Byker Grove' 1989-2006, both of which covered pretty controversial subjects over the years.

The toning down of Grange Hill though, may well have lost it its audience!!!

[captaincarpet]

Hmmm, its probably cos American humors alot different, mayby. Like they had to tone down Little Britain USA to fit with the audience.

[Meef]

I was raised on Monty Python. So were my friends. Along with Benny Hill and Red Dwarf and gee I live in America. We have produced some of the best comedians this world has known. Most of them learned from UK performs and UK performers from us. Don't put this difference on it. We laugh the same as you. Your stuff doesn't go over our head. Both countries feed off of each other. Without R&B there would not have been the Beatles. Without Man about the house, there would be know Three's company, or Till death us do part, no All in the family. It is amazing how simbionic our countries are. Don't fight it,embrace it, Brother.

[The doctor11]

some american humor is funny, but the thing is a lot of our humor does get lost on americans, they do our comedy shows etc and they have no idea what so ever

[Meef]

Yeah fart jokes go way over our heads. Our you serious? I'm really. Doc what do you base that statement on?

[Meef]

I meant "Are you serious. "

[The doctor11]

friday night project and sunday night project, everytime a american guest host, they dont have a clue whats happening and what is funny, same with have i got news for you, they cant find anything funny

[Meef]

So what. I don't find the show funny at all. Most of your talk shows like Graham Norton are trash and juvenile. Maybe they can't find anything funny because there is nothing funny to begin with. Did You watch the Daily Show or The Colbert Report? I'm sure you wouldn't understand those shows because it highly intelligent political satire. Or Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well.

[Timeless-II]

So what. I don't find the show funny at all. Most of your talk shows like Graham Norton are trash and juvenile. Maybe they can't find anything funny because there is nothing funny to begin with. Did You watch the Daily Show or The Colbert Report? I'm sure you wouldn't understand those shows because it highly intelligent political satire. Or Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well.


Tried to watch The Colbert Report... and like you say, I didn't find it the remotest bit funny, so don't watch it any more...

[kolo]

I'm sure you wouldn't understand those shows because it highly intelligent political satire. Or Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well.

Personal insults are NOT acceptable on this forum. I suggest you go and read over the forum rules again.

[Meef]

It wasn't personal it was general. I sorry for having an opinion like everyone else.

[kolo]

It wasn't personal it was general. I sorry for having an opinion like everyone else.

This is not the place to argue about it. Please keep on topic.

[Timeless-II]

I think the argument is that American shows should be made for the American market, and British for the British, etc., etc., etc......

[deanna]

If there's any validity to John Barrowman's statement, I'd say he was referring mostly to language. For some reason, American TV tends to be a bit strange about language, both on the network and basic cable levels. There's not much else on Torchwood that I would say would be that likely to offend.

PoisonIvy gave a good explanation on how American TV channels are broken down. The FCC controls the networks, but I would say a lot of Torchwood is network appropriate, even. For instance, House doesn't have explicit content, but it has plots and innuendo that could be considered suggestive or a bit adult.

On a non-premium cable level, which is where BBC America usually falls, the channels are pretty free to choose their standards, I believe. I think most choose to tone things down because they want to attract the maximum number of viewers and keep sponsors. That said, a lot of the censorship is based around removing (or avoiding) language and toning down explicit sex and violence. For example, when the movie Basic Instinct shows on cable channels here, they usually keep the sex discussions and parts of the sex scenes, but the more uh...explicit nudity is blurred over.

There is a bit of a double-standard, because violence seems to be much more "acceptable" than language and sex. It's a bit weird to see a showing of Die Hard where people are being gunned down but their language is cut out.

But you have channels such as FX that are known for having raw and steamy shows. They obviously found their market. I believe some of their shows have mild nudity, as well ('mild nudity' in this sense is showing a rear end). And I'm not sure if they still have this policy, but I believe TCM used to be big on showing movies uncut and uncensored. Of course, they show older, classic movies, so most of them don't have explicit content to begin with, but a couple times they've shown movies that were somewhat explicit.

Premium channels tend to do whatever they want, pretty much (though, strangely, full-frontal male nudity is still something of a taboo).

Having watched both the original and cut versions of most Torchwood episodes, I'll back up what PI said about most of the cuts being for length. The only content-related cuts I've seen were a shot of Rhys's backside being edited out (at least, I'm pretty sure), and some of the language. Nothing else.

[Meef]

The FCC moderates and regulates the networks. Also they are appoint by the President.

[EvesAngel]

If there's any validity to John Barrowman's statement, I'd say he was referring mostly to language. For some reason, American TV tends to be a bit strange about language, both on the network and basic cable levels. There's not much else on Torchwood that I would say would be that likely to offend.

I agree. The FCC did loosen up the rules a bit with certain 'bad' words for network TV, but some can't be mentioned in a derogatory way. I think it's riduculous to censor anything for cable TV because you're paying a fee to get it. They've got parental controls in place on modern TVs if parents are worried about their kids becoming criminals.

[Meef]

It is also up to the owners of said Channels as to what is censored.Example SCI FI is owned by NBC, so there pretty much follow NBC guidelines.

[Phones_All_Broken]

I really hope it is just a language thing, because one of the great things about TW is that it says what everyone at home is thinking ('This is quite homoerotic', for example! :laugh:) and to lose that would be sad. But I trust them to do it well, whatever happens. Kinda.

[nightowl]

BBCA has always had a bad habit of editing stuff for what they think the audience wants to see. If you read the BBCA boards, people are always screaming about how they edit Graham Norton (in whatever version of the show they happen to repeat at the time) ironically cutting out the British entertainers in favor of the Americans on the show.

The whole people of people from America watching British TV is because they like it and want to see it. Not some pseudo network exec's idea of what it should be.

I have faith in the Torchwood team in doing their show well, despite petty bureaucratic idiocy on the part of a tv network.

;)

[PoisonIvy]

I think the issue with humour is that it plays so much to the culture in which it is based. Yes, there is "smart/high brow comedy" and "base comedy", but to imply one is the general, underlying principle of one country's humour is silly, especially when both countries in discussion have examples of either type. American humour isn't somehow intrinsically more intellectual just because we have "The Colbert Report" or "The Daily Show". We do, after all, have "Larry the Cable Guy" and "Dumb and Dumber", too (which I find terribly lacking in merit). Conversely, UK comedy isn't all "Little Britain", they've got "Black Books" or "Hot Fuzz" (and the king of them all, "Monty Python"). The problem, again, lies wholly in the cultural differences. I'm not surprised someone wouldn't find "The Colbert Report" funny if they are not inundated with things like Fox News and Bill O'Riely. It's harder to see what he's making a satire of if you don't have that to begin with. But, it doesn't imply someone isn't intelligent if they don't understand it.

To move this back towards the topic at hand, I concur with the consensus that, as "Torchwood" is a UK program, it really should conform to UK culture first and foremost. It takes place in Cardiff. It's staffed by Brits. And it first airs on the beeb. To claim that since it has a large US market, we somehow have a right to its content is silly. To further what I was saying above, that's like saying we should bend "The Daily Show" to be more international, since many countries around the world watch it (or that Colbert should drop the punditry since it's not transparent abroad). If you tune into the program continually, it means you like the program as it stands. Producers and networks deciding that something popular suddenly needs a make over (to what, attract more viewers?) is counter intuitive. If it isn't broken, don't fix it! They run the risk of losing that tenuous combo that makes it a success to begin with. We've done it here in the US, producers insisting this show needs more romance or that one needs more action and the result tends to be the same. It loses what attracted people to start.

So, regardless of whether they're shaping it for the US or a pre-watershed UK audience, each of these changes pushes the show away from its original intention and its original draw, and that's uber-risky!

[Meef]

A good amount of funds comes from the American market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC If you read this ,then you can see that to run with the budget they need , other source of income are required or lic fees will have to go up. I suggest you read the break down of the sources of funds. Because with out it you can kiss these show good bye. No money no show. It is a wise move on the BBC part. If you don't like the changes don't watch the show. If five viewers leave but they gain 30 is that a problem. It's business and in these times you need to change to survive.

[Timeless-II]

Well... all I can say is... I struggled to enjoy the last series of TW...

[PoisonIvy]

A good amount of funds comes from the American market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC If you read this ,then you can see that to run with the budget they need , other source of income are required or lic fees will have to go up. I suggest you read the break down of the sources of funds. Because with out it you can kiss these show good bye. No money no show. It is a wise move on the BBC part. If you don't like the changes don't watch the show. If five viewers leave but they gain 30 is that a problem. It's business and in these times you need to change to survive.


Hmm, yet oddly enough, that article claims, In order to justify the licence fee, the BBC is expected to produce a number of high-rating shows in addition to programmes that commercial broadcasters would not normally broadcast

£3,100.6 million (£3.1bn) in licence fees collected from householders
£620.0M from BBC Commercial Businesses (which I'm going to assume includes the funds yielded by BBCA, since earlier in the article it said, "United Kingdom the BBC broadcasts commercially funded channels such as BBC America, BBC Canada, and BBC World News")

So, not even half of their funds come from us... but obviously, they should bend to our will and not "justify the licence fee", which means they're beholdant to the British people first, that gives them the largest chunk of the pie.

You also quite missed the point, it would seem. I was trying to articulate the fact that the American audience that watches the show likes it for what it is (otherwise we wouldn't watch it). How would changing it, when it's a network that has its own, specific niche (showing British tellie), attract more people? It's not like it's on NBC over here. It's on BBCA... and the majority of people who even know of BBCA's existence watch BBCA for the very fact that it shows British tv. Changing it for Americans, who are a small (yet possibly vital) part of their viewership, is ridiculous.

And I never said anything about my own preference. I said, as a principle, it's not necessarily smart to alter something that's already working. They risk turning off people just as much as attracting them. What if they lose 30 to only attract 5? You base your argument on a hypothetical result and yet give no evidence that this hypothetical is valid. It can go either way. It's just as plausible that altering the show makes it lose that magic quality that makes it work.

[Timeless-II]

.....It's just as plausible that altering the show makes it lose that magic quality that makes it work.


Like I said: I struggled to enjoy the last series.... :lol:

[Meef]

you missed my point that if you loose five viewers but gain 30 isn't that just good business. World wide still helps support BBC. The UK veiwers will pay there lic fee regardless if the watch Torchwood or not. I believe it is a law. Why not branch out. I think you missed the point. Is it wrong to want many views or cater to the ones they know they have. Change happens in all shows. If it bothers you don't watch it.

[Meef]

I don't mean to sound nasty. It just this topic keeps going in circles. I'm getting dizzy from it. Besides outside of the F word, I saw both version (bbc andbbca) and didn't see much of a difference. This is just a whole lot of angst for nothing. Like with the new Doctor wait an see. The new season is made. It's a little late to change it.

[PoisonIvy]

you missed my point that if you loose five viewers but gain 30 isn't that just good business. World wide still helps support BBC. The UK veiwers will pay there lic fee regardless if the watch Torchwood or not. I believe it is a law. Why not branch out. I think you missed the point. Is it wrong to want many views or cater to the ones they know they have. Change happens in all shows. If it bothers you don't watch it.

See, I see your point, I just think you are acting as if one possible result excludes all other possible results and yet you haven't given any reason for me to think this would be the case. Yes, it is good business practice to try to gain more viewers, but you keep forgetting it's an "if", that is, a hypothetical statement, not a factual one. I'm saying changes have just as much potential to lose viewers and possibly even more than those changes gain. There are more than one or two end results. Possible results:

Lets say our core = 100 viewers..
If the changes retain the core and simply add on to attract people, yay (100+30=130). +30
If the changes retain some of the core and add more, that's cool (100-5+30=125). +25 <-- your hypothetical
If the changes lose the same amount of the core as it gains in new viewers (100-30+30=100). 0
If the changes retain some of the core but don't add enough to negate it, less yay (100-30+5=75) -25
If the changes attract a new set and lose the core completely... not so good (100-100+30=30). -70
If the changes attract no one and lose part of the core (100-5+0=95). Boo. -5
If the changes attract no one and lose the core completely (100-100+0=0) Ouch. -100

My point is that, while your assumption is a possible outcome (the first and the second approaches), it's not the only one. It's a gamble they're playing and sometimes you lose. And if they lose the "high ratings" they must retain in order to be allowed to continue to function on the beeb (that whole bit that the licencing fee is viable if it produces high viewership, otherwise the beeb would lose credibility for issuing a licence fee) then the money garnered by taxation is moot. So, say it completely turns off British audiences while for whatever reason attracting a higher American one, well, if it's not garnering enough support at home, then the reasoning behind why the licence fee is fare is no longer valid and it should thus, by the assumptions made by the British people in paying their fee, be terminated. So... American $$ multiplied by 0 pounds = 0. They have to maintain that high UK viewership to justify the tax, if they fail to to so, then the show should, by their assumed agreement with the public, be canceled.

Again, you keep insinuating really silly, personal stuff. I never once said it bothered me. Ever. I actually like the second season more than the first and I am really excited about what I hear for the third. Assuming that my trying to point out a flaw in your reasoning equates to my personal feelings on the matter is quite ludicrous. It is my hope that it does as you say, that it continues to attract more viewers and produce a good hour of entertainment, but I'm pragmatic enough to understand why the Brits are incensed at the idea of catering to an American market and why it might even fail to do so. I hope all changes are good, regardless of the reasoning behind them, but I'll be cautious and prepared for the chance that they aren't. :happy:

[Meef]

You as in general as in meaning anyone. And if they loose it is their fault . Yes I gave my point from the business side. So name the other possibilities and don't say middle american values because that has been bought up all ready. They don't watch BBCA as much a metropolitan area. Most companies don't carry it with a basic package. I would be open to any ideas you may have. My point still stands. BBC started changing the format last year for their own audience. The core amount of people that watch Torchwood, increased with more children watching it. Kids like Captain Jack. I think that the are just trying to make it a little more friendly. It wasn't that racey to begin with. And It's shock value isn't very high. Most people I know don't watch it,because it is not very interesting. Which means they don't like the plots. Not the sex. Too watch a show based on sex takes away from the concepts of the the show, Aliens and a rift in Cardiff. I'm glad to see it mature. It means RTD has a goal with it. And in the processes they pick up more viewers that's great. I rather have them write a decent story.

[The doctor11]

Poisonivy, you right in what you say, the BBC has a duty to provide good telly to the UK, it doesnt have to branch out to other countries and because it has, by no means should they change it just to suit any other audience other than the UK one

[Toshiholic]

Interesting discussion. I've always been a fan of "The Avengers" and a lot of people blame the US for its demise. The colour seasons were primarily financed with American money, so apparently there were some "adjustments" and "concessions" made at the request of the Americans. And when it got cancelled here, it ended because there wasn't enough British interest left in it because of that.

[Meef]

Toshiholic where did you read that. Maybe the Avengers just wasn't popular over in The UK anymore because the times changed .It ran along time.
You can't blame American TV for that.
This whole thread is over something John Barrowman said. I found no other articles so far that back his words up. Also the show is on BBC1 now. Isn't that UK Family programming? I'm still looking but this whole discussion might be for naught. I can't seem to find anything from RTD or anyone else from the show to back this whole thing up. And even so is, omitting swear words a bad thing? Also maybe they are trying to get it on a USA network for a bigger audience. a lot of fans don't get BBCA. JB said that he still gets naked and there is suppose to be moments with Jack and Ianto so what is going to change.

[Bananas]

Hopefully any changes are being led by the fact that Torchwood is moving to BBC1 (Meef this is the main BBC channel so is family orientated during the day and early evening but once you get to the watershed it's time for the adults :yes:)

BBCA is obviously actively promoting it at the moment which I guess isn't suprising as the show is one of their big hits. Can anyone say how many viewers BBCA shows get? As a licence fee payer I'd hope that the BBC isn't being driven purely by it's oversea markets, but I'm not sure how comparable the viewing figures are to those achieved on BBC2 and what they might be expecting for BBC1.

From everything else I've heard season 3 is something to look forward to and I can't wait for the preview trailer :big_grin:

[Meef]

Yeah I agree Bananas. It is going to be good no matter what. I would like to find out how the ratings were on the "kids/family" version you guys had verses the showing on BBC2 and if the show was a problem over here in the states we would have gotten the kiddie version. I think they may be trying to sell it to another network over here. This way they can do that with other shows. I don't think it has any thing to do with "Americanizing" a show. We don't" Britishiz" our shows for you. I still want more bases in JB's comment. But your right it won't make a difference just like the tone down last year didn't make a difference.

[SerenityChaos]

*sighs* This is exactly why I love Torchwood. Because it wasn't "toned down."

[Undead Medic]

Does anyone still think it's being toned down now we've seen the trailer?

There are some pretty gory and graphic scenes in there, have our fears been allayed?

[Meef]

gore it accepted in the states. I think it is language they are concerned with. Also I'm convinced JB meant cut better for editing. I have yet to find anything that backs him up. So I'm going with commercial cuts.

[Torchwoodx]

Does anyone still think it's being toned down now we've seen the trailer?

There are some pretty gory and graphic scenes in there, have our fears been allayed?

From what I see in the trailer it looks a bit graphic/gory
But it's not really anything Americans don't like
It's the gay scene they were having the problems with but slowly the problems are being toned down
Hope it's (almost) the same here and America

[Meef]

And what Americans are those?
I have heard of no complaints on this end about the gay scene. Don't generalise. It anything it is the cursing.

[Meef]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/text/su ... n2008.html (http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/text/summary_jan2008.html)
Thoght this was interesting. It isn't just the US

[Undead Medic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/text/summary_jan2008.html
Thought this was interesting. It isn't just the US

Anyone would think it was (Broadcast in) 1908 not 2008, some people are really easily offended. :rolleyes:

[Meef]

I know but they seem to be everywhere. We seem to forget that the Torchwood Universe isn't our real world and there are still narrow minded people all over. UK, Europe , the US etc... there is prejudice Tim. So don't blame anyone. But from the Trailer I wouldn't worry so much.
Also I have yet to see these complaint to BBCA. It might be some of the advertisers , but I tend to doubt that. It is the highest rated show on BBCA. Haven't you heard, Gay is in the US. At least in New Jersey!

[blaid drwg]

"Some viewers took offence to the homosexual content and storyline in Torchwood" My thoughts on that is It's Torchwood, It's a program where the lead is omnisexual played by a gay man, if you take offence then dont watch it( and open your mind a bit).

[Jack-Ianto88]

yeah i completely agree! i am a gay male and i just Love this series. i am even getting my straight male friends and my female friends hooked on Torchwood too and they love it. when i told them that there was a rumor that they were toning series 3 down for BBC1 or BBCA, they were furious. they said what i, and many of you on here have already said, if they can't be opened minded, then they really don't need to watch it!

but after seeing the trailer, i really don't have any worries about them toning it down in the least.

[Meef]

I agree Ray! I think the trailer has calmed a lot of people. I still think it was a language thing.

[Bananas]

I agree Ray! I think the trailer has calmed a lot of people. I still think it was a language thing.

From the trailer I don't think there's much indication that they've toned anything down. The trailer still contains swearing and there wasn't a lot in season 2 anyway.

Could be an instance of JB keeping the fans guessing...

[Meef]

The BBC supposedly confirmed what JB said. don't quote me on that. I just can't find anything on the BBCA side. The only complaint was the cuts for commercials. I think(oh now we open up the can of worms.) He said it wrong. Or was quoted wrong. I don't know. Still doing research on it. You could be correct Bananas.

[Clarrisani]

Comment made by James Moran:


By the way, I hope the Torchwood season 3 trailer puts a stop to the nonsense "watered down" rumours. We've turned it up to 11.

[Jack-Ianto88]

Comment made by James Moran:


By the way, I hope the Torchwood season 3 trailer puts a stop to the nonsense "watered down" rumours. We've turned it up to 11.

Good! if anything they turned it up another notch. fantastic.

[Torchwoodx]

And what Americans are those?
I have heard of no complaints on this end about the gay scene. Don't generalise. It anything it is the cursing.

I'm not trying to generalise and I'm sorry if you thought thats what I meant. All Americans are different like everyone in the UK! Sorry :sorry:

[blaid drwg]

I feel a spinal tap moment "This one goes up to 11"

[Meef]

Torchwoodx, Sorry If it seemed rude. Please accept my apology, (humbles myself before you) Please don't take it personally. Hope we can be friends?

[Torchwoodx]

Torchwoodx, Sorry If it seemed rude. Please accept my apology, (humbles myself before you) Please don't take it personally. Hope we can be friends?

:yes: Sorry if i offended you in any way because I didn't mean it to come across like that. And of course we can be friends :happy:

[Meef]

Thank you Torchwoodx you are the best! I would love to be your friend. At least we know from the trailer that it my not be that toned down. (crosses fingers and makes wish)

[The doctor11]

i think we can leave this topic now, lets just let it be dead and buried with no more arguing about american telly or UK telly or whatever lets all be friends and leave it, yes? :yes: :happy:

[Torchwoodx]

Completly agreed.
UK or US, we both deserve Torchwood :laugh:

[Meef]

Other then to agree with you Doc, I'm done posting here. Unless we want to start wondering what will happen in the tone down for the 4th season ( lol). Cheers!

[time_vortex]

I think the problem with america TV is that it's very capitalistic and the stations will do anything for views. In the UK (correct if wrong) isn't BBC and all the basic channels owned by the government?

Another problem is that sometimes overseas shows don't take in account that American audiences are smart and can take a few swear words and hidden references and not die in a smoke of ash or whatever. The problem i believe is with BBCA cause they also cut down Doctor Who series 4 finale and don't air a lot of the specials in the States (The Next Doctor for example). I think BBCA is scared of its audience when it shouldnt be.

[Timeless-II]

The BBC comes under government control with funding (and the like).... but other channels are independent (ish).

[time_vortex]

Thnx! Sorry if i disturbed the peace that was reached about the debate

[Timeless-II]

No worries... :D

[Meef]

Time_Vortex your thoughts are welcomed. We just been back and forth with this debate. And we are all happy. But your thoughts are important. Hugs

[SerenityChaos]

Aw! Feel the love in this thread. It reaches from across the ocean. :happy:
:tongue:

[RisenMitten]

i think we can leave this topic now, lets just let it be dead and buried with no more arguing about american telly or UK telly or whatever lets all be friends and leave it, yes? :yes: :happy:


I've only read this thread today and I wholeheartedly agree :yes:

[Timeless-II]

[mod="Timeless-II":2i4ea84r]On that note, I shall lock the thread up - but please feel free to pm me (or any other moderator) if you wish to add any further comments.[/mod:2i4ea84r]