Did CoE trigger your depression? [Archive]

schoie68

23rd July 2009, 10:04

I'm not too sure where to place this thread, but as it concerns Series 3, I think it will be OK in this forum.

Over the past few weeks since CoE has aired, I've noticed that many people on this site and others on the Web who have been significantly affected by CoE suffer from either depression or are bi-polar. As a sufferer of chronic depression (from birth, believe it not), I believe we, as a group, have the right to air our grievances to the Torchwood writers and the BBC.

I think the fact that a proportion of Torchwood fans suffer from a mental illness does not impact negatively on the show - we're not a bunch of loonies, but sufferers of a sometimes debilatating illness - and I think it's interesting that we were all attracted to the same program, perhaps because it offered us things we are missing from our own lives, such as hope!

I'd like to hear from other people suffering from depression or bi-polar to gauge their reactions to the show, to find out why they watched it and discover how recent events have affected them. Depending on what I find out, I'd then like to speak to some professionals in the area of mental illness (probably my own shrinks) to find out their opinions on why and how we have reacted to recent events. From there - not too sure. Probably letters to BBC, letters to Depression Support sites, letters to anyone who will listen (By the way, I'm from Australia, so if anyone from UK, USA is interested in helping with this, most appreciated.)

What I would like to do is make people aware that a television program such as Torchwood (as it was in seasons 1 and 2, and not CoE) can play a very signigicant part in the continued health and happiness of an ever-increasing group of people in this world - those suffering from a mental illness. I'd even like to try and parallel it (somehow) with the fact that Ianto wasn't afraid to come out with his bisexuality, and we're not afraid to come out and say "We love Ianto and Torchwood, we suffer from a mental illnesss and we're not ashamed of it."

Of course, you might all think I'm crazy.....but would love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers
Helen

Caterpillargirl

23rd July 2009, 10:38

Hi Helen, although I have not had any official diagnosis, I would not be surprised if I suffer from depression ever since having my first child. I love Torchwood more than any other show out there, and yes I have felt very flat since watching COE.
I found it almost difficult to talk and smile for the first 24 hours afterwards, and I am ashamed to say I actually feel like a close friend has died. And then there is no one to discuss this with except here. I am in Aus too, and no one I knows watches (cept my hubbie) so I just get the "It's a TV show.... get over it". I agree with this cognitively but my heart still hurts!! I spend quite a bit of time trolling the web to look for signs that season 4 has been confirmed.....etc. looking for hope! lol.
I think your post was interesting, and would be very interested to hear if professionals can see a link, and where you will take it from here. :read:

schoie68

23rd July 2009, 11:00

I hear you Caterpillargirl - I suspect that my psychologist will confirm that the emotions we are feeling are equivalent to experiencing the real death of someone close to us. This doesn't make us weird or looney - it's the nature of the illness. People who don't suffer from depression will never be able to understand how our minds work when we are in the grip of what i call "one of my episodes" and what makes it even harder is people making fun of us.

Which is why I am so passionate about making the Torchwood writers understand how their "bastardisation" of Series 3 significantly affected a portion of their fan base. Most of us fell in love with Series 1 and 2 because it gave a safe source of escapism from the sadness of our real lives. Series 3 yanked the carpet out from under us - it was dark, gloomy and traumatic - something we didn't expect and something most of us with depression would never have considered watching if we knew what was to come.

Keep watching...I have a real bee in my bonnet about this now, so watch out BBC!! (As a part of my depression, I also have an "addictive nature", which means that once I have a project, I grab on with both hands and never give up. My shrink is trying to work on that with me, but thank god she hasn't cured me yet. I'll be funnelling all that energy into this project)

Caterpillargirl

23rd July 2009, 11:14

Don't get me wrong.... I did love COE, it was superbly written, acted and set, it just shocked me and it has literally taken 2 weeks to internally mull it over, and be able to even discuss it, but now I have started I can't stop.....sending my coffee tomorrow!! Where r u in Aust?? I am on the mid nth coast of NSW, near Byron.

schoie68

23rd July 2009, 11:42

In Brisbane...I'm not working at the moment due to a really bad episode of depression late last year, so I've had a lot of time to sit at home on my computer, joining Torchwood forums and rewatching YouTube....sad, hey :)

Caterpillargirl

23rd July 2009, 11:51

you gotta do something!!!! And that sounds like a good choice to me, we aren't too far from each other, have alot of family in Brissy near Carindale (probably spelt wrong)

kolo

23rd July 2009, 11:55

I've suffered from depression and been on medication for the last 18 months. No the show didn't "trigger it" and to be honest I'm not really sure what to make of this thread...

Captain_Angel

23rd July 2009, 12:05

I haven't had a diagnosis but due to after watching day four of CoE where Ianto dies, I was I don't know I think depressed. Until going to Cardiff on the wednesday after the frieday the episode finished. my mom and dad and me were on the motorway and I was listening to the torchwood soundtrack and I was silently crying. :cryin: :secret: :resent:

kolo

23rd July 2009, 12:11

The following symptoms are common with depression:
# You feel miserable and sad.
# You feel exhausted a lot of the time with no energy .
# You feel as if even the smallest tasks are sometimes impossible.
# You seldom enjoy the things that you used to enjoy-you may be off sex or food or may 'comfort eat' to excess.
# You feel very anxious sometimes.

Just feeling sad about a show IS NOT DEPRESSION and to be honest I'm quite offended this thread even exists. It underminds people that have actually suffered from and battled with this terrible mental illness.

schoie68

23rd July 2009, 14:13

I'm sorry kolo that you feel that way. I started this thread, I have suffered from depression all my life, I know about the signs and symptons of depression, and I know from experience that something as simple as watching a TV program can trigger depression. I'm not saying that CoE caused the depression in the first, but if you want to get technical, crying and becoming sad (as many of us did in CoE) can cause your seratonin levels to drop, and with many people suffering from depression, your body is simply unable to create more seratonin to make you "feel happy again".

The point I am trying to make with this thread is that many people out there (and you'd be surprised how many their are) have been suffering in silence for the past 2 weeks because they feel silly that a TV program has triggered their depression. I would like to give them the opportunity to all come together in a controlled environment to talk about their experiences and to know that what they are feeling is not silly - it's the nature of their illness.

I have utterly disgusted over the past 2 weeks how people on a number of different forums have ridiculed and abused
posters who have talked about being depressed after watching CoE. I titled this thread "Did CoE trigger your depression" rather than "Were you depressed after CoE" because I was aiming it at people with a diagnosed condition, not those feeling a little sad.

I think many of us also feel that, had we known CoE was going to be so harrowing, we never would have watched it in the first place. Torchwood Series 1 and 2 may have been dark in some places, but it also offered us a chance to laugh and be happy, none of which was evident in Series 3.

I have no intention ot writing to the writers of Torchwood and the BBC and blaming them for my depression. However, I do want to make them aware that taking a show such as Torchwood to a dark, gloomy place has impacted a section of their fan base in a serious way.

I am in no way medically qualified to be offering people advice on how to deal with their current period of depression, and am not trying to do so. However, I do know from personal experience that talking about it to people who feel the same way is some of the best therapy available.

I hope this eases your mind a little bit about the thread. I hope you will allow the discussion to continue as I think you will find a lot of people will take the opportunity to share.

kolo

23rd July 2009, 14:18

Thanks for explaining what you meant by started this thread, I misinterpreted it at first I guess. I'm quite touchy about some people claiming to be depressed when really they are just a bit sad, it's why mental health is treated like a joke in this country.

schoie68

23rd July 2009, 14:25

kolo, i feel the same way. It really pisses me off when people say "i'm depressed" because their phone went flat. They have no idea what real depression is like. I've always been an advocate for speaking out about depression, which is why i wanted to start this thread to make people realise it's not something to be ashamed of or made fun of. I'm hoping other non-sufferers may even read it to gain an insight into how depression can affect every aspect of your life, even the simple things such as the TV programs that you watch.
Hope I wasn't too forceful in my previous reply - it's just something i feel very passionate about!

kolo

23rd July 2009, 14:27

No not at all, I'm glad you explained what you meant.

Meef

23rd July 2009, 20:08

I really don't now what to say to this. Are we to compromise TV show because they may trigger some to be depressed? This is confusing. I feel that is almost censorship. What do you hope to achieve by this topic schoie68? If something makes you sad then don't watch it. I cry at everything but I managed to have a smile on at the end of COE because it was wonderful. If TV is changing your life, to the point were you can't function in this world, then it is time to get out of the house and do something active. If you can do that, then watch something afterwards that you know will make you feel better. There are easy ways to do this. I learned this the hard way when Anne Rice messed with her books right before she turned to God and forsoke Lestat. But I would never let that happen again. We need to live in the sun, but we should cry every now and then, it makes us all blessed humans. And that is something I would never give up. (sorry listening to Patti Smith and she makes me happy and sad in the worst of ways!) And I hope for those that truily suffer from depression that I didn't offended anyone. I have friends and family that have mental illnesses and it is not easy. Just please don't think a TV show is responsible, and if it is the start of something, go and talk to someone before it gets bad. :hugs:

SerenityChaos

23rd July 2009, 21:30

Okay. I used to suffer from depression for a couple of years in high school, took meds, saw a shrink and thankfully I have recovered. Yes, watching CoE made me cry for the first time ever at a tv show. lol. And yes Day 4 made me sad and angry to the point of not watching the show anymore and forgo anything RTD involved but I Now, I'm sorry but a fictional sci-fi tv show triggering it is kinda reaching it.

Yes, I understand how a certain character could mean to someone or how you can relate to them, etc but at the end of the day, its a tv show. Its a fun little escape every once in a while and being angry or "depressed" about it, something that is clearly a waste of energy and time.

Sorry if I came off a little bitchy. Just not having a good day. :P

gisyl

23rd July 2009, 22:44

Oh dear,I was kinda shocked when I saw this thread.
Yes,a tv show can effect you but if you get so much effected that a drepression is gonna get back or even if you get a depression from it then it is time to take a step back.
If it`s really serious then you should condsider seeking help cause that is the only way to get back on track.
And blaming a fictional tv show is not the way to go.

I know from close by experience that a depression is effecting a live big time but that help can be a great support.

I`m completly agree with Meef.

jasemine61

24th July 2009, 04:44

Hello everyone,this is my first reply and it was interesting to read all your posts. I also suffer from depression...and if you ask me why I was so attracted to the show,for me,it was,that somehow I felt like I belong with them,was part of them. What a group! Everyone single one of them with a lot of problems,emotions. They suffered,almost,if I may say so,like someone with depression does. Deeo,raw emotions. I love this show. Im in USA and I just saw episode 4 of the Children. I couldn't believe Ianto died,somewhow I also thought...bring him back to life!
:beg:

schoie68

24th July 2009, 07:55

Um, there seem to be a few people upset with this thread, but I'm not going to apologise in my attempt to bring together a group of people who may need to talk about how they are feeling.

I have NEVER said CoE caused my depression and did not blame CoE....what I said was that it triggered some symptoms, and anyone who has ever suffered from diagnosed depression will know that even a very small and insignificant event can create a depressive episode.

Perhaps my initial idea of writing to BBC was misguided (if you read past posts, I was never going to accuse them of giving ,e depression), but I am still happy that this thread enabled a few people to connect and share their thoughts and feelings. This can often be a huge part of the healing process.

If you haven't worked it out yet, I'm angry with the negative comments - it's hard enough living with this bloody disease as it is without been told we shouldn't be discussing it openly on a forum.

Kirri

24th July 2009, 08:29

I have been reading this Forum for some time now, but I have not posted before.
I have to say I am none too happy with the attitude of some posters towards both newcomers and people who appear to post what they feel!!
I have suffered from depression all my life, I do actually have the mental capacity to tell the difference between a bout of depression complete, in my case, with sleeplessness and panic attacks and "feeling sad".
Mentally ill and mentally deficient are NOT the same thing!!!
I was traumatised by CoE, I feel I was misled by the writers, as normally I would have avoided a series like this.
It may well have been good TV, I don't know, the viewing figures for Day Five were down, surely they should have topped the list??
That point is being carefully ignored, I see. I was one of the ones who did not tune in for Day Five, and I shall be one of the ones who shall not tune in to series four, if they do not get their act together.
They could do good TV and good Torchwood if they actually worked a bit harder at the story line!!
OK, rant over :scenic: going back to lurking now, no doubt the Forum Sharks will round soon to rip this to shreds!!! :nono:
Bye, :hello: (love the smileys, mods, can you tell?? :good: )

Meef

24th July 2009, 10:44

Kirri we discuss things here and we give opinions in topic to how we feel about it. All of us are a family here, and like a family we don't always get along or agree. But that doesn't mean we are not friends and don't care about each other. Not all of us were effected by COE and schoie68 is asking for where we stand. I for one loved it and thought that the last part was brilliant. I had no ill effects and I even cried. I felt bad for Jack. But he is a character in a story. No one is judging anyone here. Trust me I know. I'm friends with a lot of them. I think we are a very tolerant bunch, just opinionated. Sorry if you feel that some of us are not nice. You should not have to be made to feel uncomfortable. Please post away. All are welcomed. :hugs:

schoie68 don't be upset about the negative comments please, like I stated not everyone feels the same way. So don't look at it as an attack. They are opinions and unfortunately when you put something up for discussion that is what happens we discuss and we learn about each other. It is also part of the process of healing. :hugs:

schoie68

24th July 2009, 11:18

Sorry Meef....I'd just finished reading RTD's latest interview where he said Ianto's not coming back from the dead....and where he also basically called Ianto fans a bunch of desperate losers (well, not quite, but that's the way i read it) and I think this thread may be needed when others find out. Some of us were using the possibility of Ianto returning somehow in Series 4 as a little "cheer me up" lifeline, and now that's been yanked from under us a well.

Breathe Helen.....just breathe. :)

Meef

24th July 2009, 11:27

Here let me give you big :hugs: I'm sorry sweetie. I just read and posted. Of course I was not upset with his view. But I can understand your feelings. Please try a smile today it does help!

jasemine61

24th July 2009, 14:24

Helen: :friends:

I also read that Ianto is not coming back...well,that's the way things are. Im going to watch episode 5 tonight and see what happens. I've read a few spoilers and it doesn't look good but Im watching anyway. As far as a depression episode trigered by it,well, my episodes come and go with or without torchwood but I feel Im going to cry as if I've really lost a dear,close friend,it was hard to see Owen die a second time but Ianto,well,that rip my heart. Do we all wonder why? Why Ianto was so loved by all? Is there a Ianto inside all of us? I think the author of the series is a genious...I hope torchwood comes back full force...I will be waiting!! :yikes2:

jasemine61

25th July 2009, 04:30

Hello...I just watched episode 5...and all I can say is WoW! I cried through the whole thing. I must say that I felt like I could jump right into the tv and fight for the children. I hope there is a series 4. And about John Frobisher, I felt his pain,I felt his misery,I felt his heartache and Im sorry that the writer chose to kill him and his family the way he did. What a great actor. :clapper:

Catmoon3

25th July 2009, 05:48

To everyone who has suffered from depression, a great big hug your way. I've been on anti-depressants on and off for years so I know how much suffering it can cause. Many people look to their entertainment for an escape from the depressing stuff. They know it's 'just fiction.' Depression is often caused by an imbalance in brain chemicals, and those suffering are not able to control their mood. Can't just cheer up like flipping a switch (as I never could quite make my family understand). Were that it was that simple.

Television shows, movies, books. They can do what they want. Some care about the social issues they reflect, and their impact on fans and some don't. Just my own personal tastes/opinions, I don't like too much tragedy in my entertainment. Got enough of that in RL, thank you. When I know a certain writer has a reputation for killing characters off and doing other nasty things, I will probably avoid anything that person produces in the future because I don't enjoy feeling sad. To each their own, some people love that stuff. Try to focus on enjoying the episodes you did have in TW, in the past. It was good while it lasted, yes? There's always fanfic where your fav characters are alive and well to read. When I was going through a bad spell, I tried to avoid anything that would make it worse and focus on things that were happy and upbeat instead. I even stopped watching the news (they love telling the bad and ignore the good) and rented "feel good" movies to watch. And certainly, if it's affecting your mood too much, consider going to see your doctor.

To answer the question posed, did CoE trigger me? No, because I'm a new fan and wasn't emotionally invested in the characters. I'm thankful for that. Won't be watching anything from this particular creator in future as I clearly see the pattern and style and it's not to my tastes. But I do enjoy the old characters so I'll still read the pre-CoE fanfic. It was really something special.

jasemine61

25th July 2009, 16:39

I was reading catmoon 3 post...how true is it that family or friends cannot understand that you just cannot turn off depression as if you had an on off button...or just think positive,happy thoughts. The way I can describe mine is like a cloud,a storm cloud,I feel it coming,I see it coming and when it does come it absolutely surrounds me with sadness and fatigue,its like it sucks your strenght,you are totally in its control. When that happens to me I can only surrender to it,lay down,cover my head with my blanket and pray it goes away soon. After,and it can be days,week,Im like the walking dead,no energy at all. Im glad I found this forum to speak so freely about it. Thank all of you for posting yours.

barnsleyman

25th July 2009, 17:54

If TV is changing your life, to the point were you can't function in this world, then it is time to get out of the house and do something active.

I agree.

I totally sympathize with people who truly suffer from depression it's a horrible thing, but if the death of a character on a TV show can effect you so badly, then really Torchwood isn't the show to watch. It very often deals with unhappy endings, and we shouldn't be surprised at the dark subject matter. We know Torchwood is much darker than Dr Who, that's often seen as the attraction by many people, so we shouldn't be surprised when dark things do happen.

No we weren't expecting Ianto to die especially after the end of season 2 and the death of 2 major characters there, but drama should grip and surprise us.

If CoE has the power to effect you so badly then it's not a good idea to continue watching it in the future. You need to watch things that are more 'feel good' for your entertainment and yes do other things as well, be active.

This isn't written as an insult to anyone but I do think it is sensible if a show like Torchwood which by it's nature is quite dark can have such negative effects on anyones mental health it is not a good idea to watch a show of that nature.

Meef

25th July 2009, 21:56

I agree with you. Very well put. I don't see it as being an insult just practical advice. Thank you for being straight forward.

schoie68

26th July 2009, 11:00

I think the reason why so many of us were affected by CoE is that, in the past, Torchwood may have been quite dark and sometimes sad, but we've always had the growth in Jack and Ianto's relationship to make us happy again.

I've watched TW from Ep 1, and actually came to rely upon my weekly dose of Jack/Ianto as a highlight of my week...and when you're in a depressive episode, anything to make you smile is incredibly important.

But in CoE, we not only had the incredibly dark themes of the 456, we also had our Jack/Ianto lifeline taken from us...for ever!!

I'm not saying I didn't think the concept and writing of CoE was brilliant, but it took us all by surprise, and if people who don't suffer from depression are being affected by it (just read the posts where people have been crying for days) then imagine how we feel! My seratonin levels still aren't where they were pre-CoE and its been 3 weeks.

So yes, I've been reading Fanfic and living 'in the nile' as someone else put it, but eventually I'm going to have to make the difficult mdecision of whether or not I'll risk watching Torchwood Series 4. Probably not...because it will always be the Jack & Ianto Show in my heart.

Meef

26th July 2009, 12:52

I can understand that Helen. But though I loved the concept of Jack and Ianto and still write them as a live in alot of AU fan fictions, (a lot of my friends have vowed to keep Janto alive in our AU's) I will write other stories that are After COE with Jack trying to come to terms with the loss of Ianto. I think that is just as important that we learn to deal with the loss of character and don't give up on a show that has given so many beautiful moments. You call it the Jack and Ianto show, which it had become for a lot of us. But I was never that far gone to not remember that the show was designed for Jack's character since it first began. It will be interesting to see how Jack deals with Ianto's and Steven's death. Maybe even how he makes it up to his daughter. That is something we all can learn from. Something that is human nature. We learn to move on as we heal. I hope you will find happiness and feel better about this. Peace and :hugs:

Poodle

26th July 2009, 13:07

Well done for posting this Helen, it's one of the best posts I've seen on how CoE has had an adverse effect on a large number of fans. I can't claim that it's caused me to become depressed, or even caused the depression that I suffer from intermittently to get worse - but I won't deny that it's had an effect on me.

I watched season 1 to see what it was like, and I loved it. When S2 came along, I had every intention of watching it anyway, but it also coincided with a period where life wasn't going well for me, and I was suffering from depression. TW helped a lot. No, I didn't go away and live in a little dream world with Captain Jack and Co., and 'escape from the real world' (which is probably the interpretation some people reading this will apply), but it did give me something else important to me to think about at a time when I desperately needed it. Whether it was important to anyone else I didn't know - or care.

So to the people saying 'it's TV, get a life, of course it shouldn't affect you' etc., then what? When a programme has a beneficial, feel-good factor that's great, and all credit to the writers/actors/production team I suppose. When the effect isn't good, then you're a weak-minded individual who should seek professional help and it's all your own fault. Double standards anyone?

I've said CoE has had an impact on me. If I didn't, I'd be lying. When it showed, I was part way through one of the novels, with another waiting to be read. Tbh, I wish I hadn't carried on reading them, as they are now overshadowed by CoE. Jack's character has utterly and irrevocably been changed for me, and it's impossible for me to read the novels without that in mind. For the same reason, I haven't attempted to watch S1 or S2 again. At present, it's hard for me to think that I will ever watch them again. TW and everything good that it stood for in my mind has gone.

Of course, that may change in the future. I'm not going to compare this to the loss of a loved one, as I would find that an overly-dramatic way to sum up the way that I feel. I'd compare this more to the loss of a deeply loved possession, maybe photos or letters - something that you take out at regular intervals, to give you an emotional lift, or to bring back good memories. For now, I've mentally put TW in a box and hidden it in a cupboard. Some time I'll take it out and look at it again, but for now it would be too painful.

Your point that so many people suffering from depression appear to have been attracted to TW in the first place is an interesting one. Purely as research, it would be interesting to find out what the attraction was, whether the BBC/production team were aware of this particular attraction to a particular audience segment, and to hear any comment from relevant medical professionals. But that would be purely as research. I'm not suggesting - and I don't think you were either - that this should in anyway be used to control programme content, or as a form of censorship. You will find someone, somewhere who could be adversely affected by any programme content - realistically, you just couldn't draw a line.

I hope you'll get a lot of positive responses to this. I think it's a shame that people seem to be assuming that they know what your opening post is going to say, and are responding to that, rather than taking time to read what you've said and try to understand it. You've said that you're angry with negative comments - it's hell of a lot better than letting them upset you :hugs: Hopefully, people who already suffered from depression and were affected by CoE will feel able to come here and talk about how it affected them.

I'd just gone to post this, and seen Meef's reply, and the point that the show was designed for Jack's character. I would agree with that, but for me I was always far more of a fan of Jack in Dr Who than in TW. I appreciate that TW Jack needed to be darker, but I always loved the idea of 'light' Jack popping up in Dr Who. That can't happen now - or not in a way that's going to work for me. I guess the DW special will have to go in the box in the cupboard as well for now.

gisyl

26th July 2009, 16:50

I agree with Meef and barnsleyman

With persmission of my friend I bring this over here :

I ask one of my friends who watched Torchwood with me and who suffers from depressions ever since I have known him if after watching Torchwood he was depressed.
He really was suprised that I ask him that because in his words,while it was dark and emotional,it wasn`t depressing.
For him there were enough light moments to balance out the bad ones.
And he could in fact relate to Jack when he went away in the end because it was too much.
But he also said that in the end it is a fictional serie and there are things in the real world which makes him depressed but not a fictional serie.

aperfectcircle

26th July 2009, 17:31

It definitely left me in a dark place. RTD's dystopian comments on society did leave me feeling pretty down for a while and seemed to dredge up some old emotions.
I have the room when my room mate is watching it, because I don’t want to feel that way.
I’m not sure how crazy that makes me sound =p
But I’d say there is evidence to support you theory.

Meef

26th July 2009, 19:07

I'm beginning to see that it was Janto dieing more then anything that made the serotonin levels drop. Not the way COE was written which leads me to believe that if RTD had killed the couple (or just Ianto) off at the end of season two or even later on it would still be the same way. No matter how good the series is. That was the straw that broke the fandoms back. Well for some it did. The feel good was in the way the relationship was looked at. Maybe RTD's comment go watch Supernatural they have pretty boys makes sense now. He didn't want it to be a show with a romance, just a well written drama. A science fiction drama which may have romantic elements but it shouldn't consume the show.

once again not trying to upset just understand.

Spiritmuse

27th July 2009, 23:38

I haven't posted a lot yet so you'll not know me very well, but I have to say something here, because the sheer amount of recognition in this thread has brought tears to my eyes. I suffer from dysthymic disorder, which is not quite full-on depression but very close, coupled with severe performance anxiety. It's characterized by a powerful feeling that everything is useless. I have been in treatment for a couple of years now.

I'll be the first to admit that Torchwood was always a bit on the heavy side for me, but what kept it watchable was the brilliant characters and the way they seemed to stick together somehow, and the sense of humor that the show had despite everything. CoE saw the systematic destruction of all that. It showed an amount of horror and bleakness that far exceeds anything I had come to expect from TW. If I had known that it was going to be that bad I never would have watched it.

But it's not just the story itself. It's also all the stuff around it that bothers me. The whole mess around the save Ianto campaign, where insults were thrown at writers by upset Ianto fans, and other insults were thrown at ALL Ianto fans, whether they had been upset or not (fortunately none of it here), and to top it off certain remarks by mr. Davies that could be construed as insulting to fans... The only place I feel safe is within the "bubble" of Ianto fans but apparently that makes me a "rabid fangirl" to most of the rest of the world.

It all just seems to me as if the worst of humanity is coming to the forefront in this, and it is all, once again, severely denting my faith in people. It's not so much triggering depression as it is adding yet another layer of dark disillusionment that I really do not need right now.

I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. It's not often that you're able to talk about stuff like this on a public forum and be taken seriously. Usually you're ridiculed, called a stupid emo kid and told to get over it. It's somewhat comforting that that doesn't seem to be happening here. :)

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://torchwoodforum.co.uk/images/mobile.png

JohnB

30th July 2009, 12:25

For sure it left me feeling extremely sad. 3 weeks later and I still get misty, or cry a little when the thought crosses my mind.
I wish so many weren't negative about COE. I was at first, but then I realized that this is how Owen/Tosh fans felt. I loved Ianto, and love the actor, but this is Torchwood, and as they said from the very beginning, people die young.

Slowly I'm getting better, but I can't watch the eps for a while!!! :)

cherry

30th July 2009, 14:43

Ive not re watched any of the episodes, and yes its given me or triggered my depression so much ive left home, taking with me just enough to fit into a bag. I feel empty sore very down and really emotional. I feel awful I really do.

This isnt Kai's fault at all, not in any way but when I saw him just before new year...he said what he'd be doing in 2009, and he did say...hopefully filming another series of Torchwood. When it was over...series 3...Im not sure thats possible now. I dont know...anything is possible I guess. Please excuse my terrible frame of mind.

Chuck Unwin

30th July 2009, 19:39

i don't know if it's been posted all ready but if your feeling deeply depressed from COE
it's not COE is because you've already had depression and COE was just a trigger

I know this because my wife suffers from sever depression and she was good till COE so it was a trigger and she went back into her depression cycle

peanutbutter

7th August 2009, 23:04

Seriously, if a tv show worsens your depression, you need to go talk with your therapist/doctor/whatever. And I mean that in a good way. Some professional needs to talk you out of it, because depression and other mental illnesses are bad enough as they are, but one of the first steps to healing is get your priorities straight and focus on the rest of your (real) life.

I was gutted after Day 4, I had cried my eyes out and I cried almost all through Day 5. It took me a couple of days to realise that the fact that CoE had this much of an impact, only meant that it was Bloody Brilliant TV.

The writing was superb, the acting and directing were amazing (JB actually's got RANGE!), and CoE will probably go down in history as a classic piece of drama.

And everybody lives. Gareth is absolutely fine, John is happily damaging taxi's in California, Eve is having a baby, all is well.

Everybody lives, so celebrate the experience that was CoE. Read happy fix-it-fanfic or write your own if that helps, but don't let yourself get stuck in sorrow that isn't real.

schoie68

11th August 2009, 03:46

Hi all. Thanks so much for replying to this thread and opening up to everyone. I think it really helps to discuss these things with people who are in the same boat.

I'd just like to touch on something Spiritmuse mentioned in their post about people's reactions to campaigns such as the saneiantojones campaign. I am a very strong follower of this campaign - have been from the start. And my psychiatrist is absolutely thrilled because it has given me an outlet to discuss my feelings and interact with other people, at the same time doing something positive like raising money for children in need. In essence, I've taken my depression and used it in a constructive way. Better healing than any medication could achieve.

So to peanutbutter, I say : My therapist believes I'm getting my priorities right by being part of a supportive community. So how do I now deal with the fact that a lot of people, including people on this forum, are now berating me for being part of the saneiantojones campaign? We've been called childish, whiny, immature and unreasonable - not exactly the kind of supportive words I need to hear right now. The only people who are offering me support are the wonderful friends I've made on the savecoffeeboy LJ community.

So to all those people who keep saying negative things about the saveiantojones campaign and similar campaigns, I would remind you of two things - we're not hurting anyone with this campaign - and secondly, for someone like me who suffers from severe depression, it is proving to be the best medication I have ever been prescribed to battle my illness. I wish people could see past their own opinions on whether or not we should be holding this protest, and instead consider the fact that it's bringing together a lot of people, for whatever reason, in a fun and supportive environment. If we fail, well we fail. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

11th August 2009, 04:55

gisyl

11th August 2009, 10:21

We know that real dramatic imagery has a profound impact. Shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the WTCs, the Red Cross was advising people not to repeatedly view these images, which were on every newscast virtually all the time.
But the thing is that those attacks were real and real people died that day which is far more worse then some tv serie were the people who "die" are actors/actresses who at the end of the day go home safely to their families.
That is a big difference.

In the case of the Torchwood COE episodes, fans of the series have invested a great deal of expectation and speculation, which the creators of the show have made use of. Every episode was a cliffhanger. The exchanges among the fictional PM and his staff (discussing the selection and collection of "units") was very credibly presented. Just when we thought that was the worst of it, we find the hero of show sacrificing his own grandchild to save the world.

Which is what makes it good fictional drama because you wanna know what happens next and how it ends.
Yes,it didn`t end in the most postive way but in a way that was what you could expect to an extent.

schoie68
I do see past my own opinion and I respect someone elses opinion aswell even if it is different as mine cause that is what makes a forum like this fun to be.
I also wanna say that while you have a feeling you get berated for being part of the saveianto campaign,I sometimes feel that in some places I can`t be postive about COE because of the fact that Ianto dies.
So,the reactions work both ways.

I understand that you might feel attack when people have a different reaction when you say that your part of a campaign for a fictional character but I also think that comments like that are bound to happen and I think that wether you like that or not you have to learn to deal with things like that also by ignoring them or by giving your reasons why you feel you should do that.

You can`t expect all fans to be willingly going with those campaigns because there are a lot of fans who while sad think it was part of a good serie
I for one think some are good like the money for CIN because it serves a purpose and it is an contructive way to deal with COE but when I see a campaign to send coffee to the BBC then I shake my head and wonder why people think that would help.

No offense to people offcourse

Meef

11th August 2009, 10:43

Sorry messed up and had to start again. :hugs:

Meef

11th August 2009, 10:45

The symptoms of depression described can be experienced by anyone at any given time. My understanding is that when those symptoms persist for a number of days, then a person is considered to be depressed in the clinical sense.

Could a television episode or series trigger depression? I believe it certainly could. We know that real dramatic imagery has a profound impact. Shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the WTCs, the Red Cross was advising people not to repeatedly view these images, which were on every newscast virtually all the time.

In the case of the Torchwood COE episodes, fans of the series have invested a great deal of expectation and speculation, which the creators of the show have made use of. Every episode was a cliffhanger. The exchanges among the fictional PM and his staff (discussing the selection and collection of "units") was very credibly presented. Just when we thought that was the worst of it, we find the hero of show sacrificing his own grandchild to save the world.

It's heady stuff.

I would suggest that dwelling upon those events -- even though they are fictional -- can contribute to a depressive episode.

The reason why viewing the attacks trigger depression was they showed it every three seconds everywhere you turned, it became torturous to the viewer breaking down the mind. I don't think that COE even came close to that. I know I'm 20 minutes from NYC. So don't even go there. There is a difference and I agree with Jolein on this. You would think that we are at a level where we can distinguish the differences between reality and imaginary. If people have existing conditions then yes COE was not a wise viewing choice. Others are subject to mass hysteria which means they need to belong and they start to feel as the events are real. I don't think the show is to blame. The main thing is that it is entertainment. And most of the reaction was over Ianto's death. Steven was secondary. That says something right there.

cherry

11th August 2009, 16:11

Foe me, I know its only fiction. Im able to watch things and know they are not real and then leave it behind. Ive a lot of life to live beyond tv.
I think and I can only speak for me, when I watched COE I was really lookin forward to it, especcially seeing Rhys again even more. But if id have known the outcome...I would not have watched.And I dont meant that in a nasty way at all.
For me it wasnt a positive thing to have watched, especially the last episode of COE. Im not sure how the writers of Torchwood can fix this...apart to make it all a bad dream.

Cherry. xx

11th August 2009, 18:24

The reason why viewing the attacks trigger depression was they showed it every three seconds everywhere you turned, it became torturous to the viewer breaking down the mind. I don't think that COE even came close to that. I know I'm 20 minutes from NYC. So don't even go there.

My comparison of the two was overstated. My point was that imagery -- real or fictional -- can have an effect on people. I don't question for a moment that proximity to the events of September 11 make the stress of the event more profound. Nonetheless, the whole world watched, and the images were disturbing even to those further from ground zero.

There is a difference and I agree with Jolein on this. You would think that we are at a level where we can distinguish the differences between reality and imaginary. If people have existing conditions then yes COE was not a wise viewing choice. Others are subject to mass hysteria which means they need to belong and they start to feel as the events are real. I don't think the show is to blame. The main thing is that it is entertainment. And most of the reaction was over Ianto's death. Steven was secondary. That says something right there.

100% agreed. We should be able to distinguish real from imaginary -- in reality, not everyone does -- and I did not argue that TW COE causes depression per se. I was talking about people's responses to it

Meef

11th August 2009, 18:53

I was just adding to what you said, sorry if it came across wrong :hugs: I thought your opinion was valuable. Friends?

peanutbutter

11th August 2009, 21:23

And my psychiatrist is absolutely thrilled because it has given me an outlet to discuss my feelings and interact with other people, at the same time doing something positive like raising money for children in need. In essence, I've taken my depression and used it in a constructive way. Better healing than any medication could achieve.

I do understand how being part of a group of people with the same interests, the same feelings and the same goal can in fact be very healthy. And the fact that the save ianto people have somewhat manoeuvered themselves into sort of an underdog position in TW-fandom probably makes the group even more friendly towards eachother. For those who think alike about the ianto-thing, it must be a nice, safe place to hang out right now. That I can see.

So to peanutbutter, I say : My therapist believes I'm getting my priorities right by being part of a supportive community.

Great, and it would be even greater if you found people over there who shared other interests besides Ianto, and made some new friends, maybe even IRL friends as well.

(Have to break this reply in 2 parts, because my keyboard is acting weird.)

peanutbutter

11th August 2009, 21:46

So how do I now deal with the fact that a lot of people, including people on this forum, are now berating me for being part of the saneiantojones campaign? We've been called childish, whiny, immature and unreasonable - not exactly the kind of supportive words I need to hear right now. The only people who are offering me support are the wonderful friends I've made on the savecoffeeboy LJ community.

I think you should realise that some of your fellow members made James Moran take a step back from his blog, said terrible things about RTD, are rigging polls, are harassing the BBC with daily complaints, spend lots of money not on CiN but on sending coffee that only ends up in the bin, have sought out every positive review of CoE to vent their anger and who are basically screaming all over the internet how betrayed they feel because CoE should have been about Jack and Ianto having lots of real sex (I kid you not), and how they should have lived happily ever after. Forever.

They don't believe the AI is valid, they don't believe the viewing figures are correct, they say killing Ianto is homophobic and they think Jack not saying 'I love you' is a plothole. And they are not capable of any normal, friendly discussion, because They Are Right.

As long as people like that are the spokespersons of the group, other people will react to them. If you are not doing those things, you should not take reactions personal.

elliot02uk

11th August 2009, 22:44

11th August 2009, 22:56

I was just adding to what you said, sorry if it came across wrong :hugs: I thought your opinion was valuable. Friends?

No worries. We're all good.

G

peanutbutter

11th August 2009, 23:16

Although I was made extremely unhappy by CoE, I took care not to make any nasty remarks about RTD and anyone else involved in the writing of Days Four and Five. That wouldn't have made me feel any better. However, I still believe in miracles and am waiting, somewhat impatiently, for Series 4. Yes, of course, there WILL be a Series 4 - it only remains to be seen whether I will be watching it...!

Jean B

Seriously, I think there's nothing terribly wrong with heat-of-the-moment- death treaths. :yes: After Ianto's death, I too posted some nasty remarks about RTD and how I'd like to break something of his because he nearly broke my heart.

But it's been over a month now, and I really have problems understanding why some people are still so full of misplaced hatred. I mean, the only reason a fictional character's death could possibly affect a viewer so much, is because that fictional character and the circumstances of the death were perfectly written. Really, I don't get why some people still can't snap out of the fiction and see the brilliant tv.

But, to stop ranting and properly address your post: I must admit part of me would do the happy dance if we got a glimpse of Ianto in S4, in a dream or a flashback scene. But another part of me is rather worried that such a thing would only lead to even more extreme reactions the next time a beloved character dies.

11th August 2009, 23:29

I mean, the only reason a fictional character's death could possibly affect a viewer so much, is because that fictional character and the circumstances of the death were perfectly written.

I think you nailed it, PB. Ianto's and Jack's death scene is a wonderful piece of drama. It was a death scene that I sat up for. I believed it. We've all seen people die on television -- it's hard to get worked up about sometimes. Their final moments were tender, and it shows to me a work of television that takes the viewer to next level beyond 'Looky here, we're so cool cuz we got gay characters' to a place where the viewer cares about the characters.

Meef

12th August 2009, 11:26

No there is something wrong with verbal violence. If you can't step back and control those emotions then it could lead to physical violence. The point is that it is a TV show. Entertainment, not real. If you invested so much time in it and then react to it by being rude in topics (not in this forum, other places on the Net.) then you have a bigger problem then depression. It is a TV show. May be Steven King had the right idea. Don't say it is the only happiness you have, and the nasty writers took it away from you. That is self centric and very childish. I say it again it is a TV show. Violence in any form is wrong! Let it go and find real things to make you happy. Warm sunny days, children playing, get a pet. Touch another human being, these are things that mean something.

There blew off some steam. My comments were not meant to offend, just help my own mental health.

Caterpillargirl

12th August 2009, 11:54

Violence in any form is wrong! Let it go and find real things to make you happy. Warm sunny days, children playing, get a pet. Touch another human being, these are things that mean something. Meef.

GO MEEF GO!!! :clapper:
I could not agree more, I am quite disappointed at the way this thread has disintegrated.

gisyl

12th August 2009, 13:48

Meef

12th August 2009, 18:16

It makes me worry about what these fanatics would be like in a real situation. Another thing is would they have started a charity if it had been anyone else. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good idea to cancel some of the anxiety into something productive. But would they have done it for anyone, say a neighbor or a friend or even a complete stranger. Ianto is a stranger he also isn't real. Nor is he Gareth David Lloyd. Gareth is the actor who plays him. My question is how many of you actually donated to CIN before Ianto's death. Did you ever sit with these kids or serve food at a soup kitchen. I donate to food banks all the time. I didn't need a fictional character's death to make me do something. Maybe you can stick with the positive part and give more to your fellow man, if not money then your time. It makes a world of difference not just to the community around you but to your own well being.

How far are we off topic in this thread. I think they should all be combined because they are all the same, become one big mess of off topic behavior! :laugh: